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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (188462)	6/5/2006 8:27:28 PM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

>> Sun Tzu, I don't know if you've checked out the history... I've checked it extensively and the Islamic conquests, like all other conquests, where anything but peaceful. My point was that whatever the "message" it gets interpreted according to the circumstances. So I was not discussing the message, but the history. The history of Jews, Christians, and Muslims is full of conquest and blood. You may claim that Jews have not committed atrocities for a very long time, but then again they did not have the power to do so either. They certainly did not shy away from it if you read the ancient history. >> Unlike Christianity, the founding prophet of Islam was also a conquering general. You are over-reaching here. The Islamic conquests did not occur during Mohammed's life. Nor in fact during his immediate successor. It was Omar who set them lose. The difference between Mohamed and other religious founders is that he "won". So during his life time he actually had to govern rather than being limited to just give pure ethical edicts. >> jihad is a pillar of the faith in Islam, front and center. Not really. I assume by "Jihad" (literally meaning "to strive") you mean a religious war of conversion. Of the two major sects of Islam, the Shia do not believe that is justified unless led by the "right" Imam who presently is on a different plane of existence <vbg>. BTW, because Omar is not an accepted leader by the Shia, all the other Islamic conquests were wrong too. When it comes to the Sunnis, you have a slightly better case to make. But even there it is not an automatic call to arms. Most modern, and not so modern Sunni sects have interpreted Jihad to mean an internal battle with temptations. A typical definition is like the one given by Ibn al-Qayyim: Jihad is of four kinds: jihad an-nafs (jihad against one’s self), jihad ash-Shaytan (jihad against Satan), jihad against the kuffar and jihad against the hypocrites. 1. Jihad an-nafs (jihad against one’s self) is of four kinds: a. Striving to learn the teachings of Islam b. Striving to make oneself act in accordance with what one has learned.c. Striving to call others to Islam, teaching those who do not know about it. d. Striving to bear patiently the difficulties involved in calling people to Allah and the insults of people, bearing all that for the sake of Allah.If a person achieves all these four levels, then he will be one of the rabbaniyyin (learned men of religion who practice what they know and also preach to others. (see 3:79). The salaf (righteous predecesors) were agreed that the scholar does not deserve to be called a rabbani unless he knows the truth, acts in accordance with it, and teaches it to others. Whoever teaches, acts in accordance with his knowledge, and has knowledge will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 2.Jihad ash-Shaytan (jihad against Satan) is of two types:a. Warding off the doubts that Satan stirs up to undermine faith. b. Striving against Satan to ward off the corrupt desires that he provokes. The first jihad is followed by certainty of faith, and the second is followed by patience. Allah says: “And We made from among them [Children of Israel], leaders, giving guidance under Our Command, when they were patient and used to believe with certainty in Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.)” (32:24). Allah tells us that leadership in religion is attained through patience and certainty of faith. Patience wards off desires and certainty wards off doubts. 3. Jihad against the munafiqin (hypocrites) and kuffar (disbelievers) is of four kinds: with the heart, the tongue, one’s wealth and oneself. Jihad against the disbelievers is more along the lines of physical fighting, whereas jihad against the hypocrites is more along the lines of using words and ideas. 4. Jihad against the leaders of oppression and innovation is of three kinds: jihad with one's hand (i.e., physical jihad, fighting) if one is able. If that is not possible, then it should be with one's tongue (i.e., by speaking out). If that is not possible, then it should be with one's heart (i.e., by hating the evil and feeling that it is wrong). >> When you look at the religions today, there is no question that Islam, taken all in all, is far more literal-minded and far more warlike than Christianity or Judaism. I don't see any Islamic armies in Christian lands, so I can't accept that. As I have been saying, religion is always subject to interpretation by the immediate political needs. So if you tell me exactly which sect which time interval you are talking about, then we can have a better discussion. ST