SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Srexley who wrote (743643)6/25/2006 7:30:45 AM
From: DuckTapeSunroof  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769670
 
Re: "...You are avoiding saying what the dem opposition was."

No I'm NOT.

Didn't you even read my post before you replied? I already stated that.

Here:

...The Republicans were nearly unanimous in their opposition to the US military incursion into Somalia... and I believe that the majority of the Republican caucus also opposed the military intervention in the former Yugoslavia.

And, yes, there was also Democrat opposition to both... but clearly (& especially in Yugoslavia, which was a larger commitment) there had to be a large enough bunch of Dems who voted to fund it to overcome the Republican opposition... or else it would have never been approved.



To: Srexley who wrote (743643)6/25/2006 7:32:06 AM
From: DuckTapeSunroof  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 769670
 
Who's This 'We,' Non-Soldier Boy?

By ROBIN TONER
June 25, 2006
WASHINGTON
nytimes.com

REPRESENTATIVE Patrick McHenry, a 30-year-old Republican from North Carolina, rose during the recent debate over Iraq in Congress and declared that the struggle against "Islamic extremists" was his generation's great challenge. Unlike the "white flag" crowd on the left, he vowed, he would not shrink from the fight.

That was a little too much for Representative John Murtha, the senior Democrat on the House Defense Appropriations Subcommittee, an ex-marine and Vietnam vet and also — in the current debate — a leading advocate of a speedy withdrawal of the troops.

"It is easy to stay in an air-conditioned office and say, 'I am going to stay the course,' " he said, angrily, after Mr. McHenry, who never served in the military, was finished. "It is the troops that are doing the fighting, not the members of Congress that are doing the fighting."

Behind that exchange was a demographic reality: The debate, which has consumed the House and the Senate for the last two weeks, was largely conducted by men and women who have not served. Twenty-five percent of the House, and 31 percent of the Senate, are veterans, the lowest proportions since World War II, according to the Military Officers Association of America.

Does it make a difference? Clearly Mr. Murtha felt it did, sharply criticizing some nonveteran hawks — notably Karl Rove, the president's chief political strategist — for not understanding the reality in Iraq, the toll of "deploying people two or three times," the complexity of the mission.

"It's a very small segment that are making the sacrifices, and it's pretty easy to say, 'Let's keep them over there,' " Mr. Murtha said in an interview.

Some analysts have argued that there are clear differences between veterans and nonveterans in attitudes toward the use of American military power. Christopher Gelpi, associate professor of political science at Duke and co-author of "Choosing Your Battles," said his 1998-99 research showed that "veterans are very skeptical of the kind of mission that Iraq is: nation-building, a long commitment where our goals are really political more than military."

Moreover, Mr. Gelpi said, once the decision is made to intervene, veterans, like military officers, tend to lean toward using overwhelming force, an attitude of "let's do it right and do it large scale, or let's get out."

Still, there were vets in the recent debate who supported the idea of a timetable on troop withdrawal, and vets who endorsed President Bush's more open-ended commitment to American troops in Iraq (a debate that ended with votes beating back Democratic calls for withdrawal). For example, Mr. Murtha's Republican colleague, Representative Duncan Hunter, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, is also a decorated Vietnam vet, and led the charge for the Bush position.

In fact, partisanship might explain more about lawmakers' positions than military backgrounds. William Bianco, professor of political science at Indiana University, said his study on voting patterns showed that, "in the main, veterans look like nonveterans in Congress, on any dimension we can measure."

And some historians dismiss the notion that military experience, in and of itself, grants lawmakers wisdom concerning war and peace. "Just because somebody in the 50's got drafted for two years and spent 18 months as a typist at Fort Dix doesn't necessarily give you any particular insight into issues of national security," said Dennis Showalter, professor of history at Colorado College.

But David King, associate director at the Institute of Politics at Harvard, worries that there is, in today's politics, a shortage of people "with a background in the service who can speak truth to both military and political power." He cited Harry Truman, who served in France in World War I and rose to prominence as a senator in the early 1940's from investigating military procurement.

Indeed, men like Mr. Murtha derive much of their influence — on Capitol Hill and with the public at large — from their status as tough-minded combat veterans. Mr. Murtha transformed the debate over the war last fall when he called for a withdrawal.

Some veterans say that combat experience — even more rare in Congress than general military experience — does make them different. "The world is a lot bigger after you've been in a war," said Bob Kerrey, the former Democratic senator from Nebraska who lost a leg in Vietnam and won the Medal of Honor. "There's a lot less black and white, and a lot more gray."

Senator Chuck Hagel, a Nebraska Republican and another decorated Vietnam vet, said combat experience "doesn't mean we're right, but we do bring a frame of reference when it comes to war." He added, "When you've never experienced war it's a little easier to be more cavalier about committing troops and not understanding the consequences of war."

Mr. Hagel, who voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq but has voiced many doubts, was one of several veterans who seemed dismayed by the sharply partisan campaign-style oratory many politicians took to the debate. "Our men and women doing the fighting — and dying — deserve better," he said on the Senate floor.

Charles Moskos, a military sociologist at Northwestern, calls this the era of "patriotism lite" on Capitol Hill — noting that not only are there few veterans, but also few lawmakers with children in the armed services. That first statistic, at least, might change — the war in Iraq has produced a wave of veterans running for office now.

Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company