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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (190636)	7/1/2006 10:19:02 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The sentence, first of all, perpetuates two well-known fallacies regarding the so-called "Medieval Warm Period" and "Little Ice Age". See the RealClimate discussions of the Little Ice Age and Medieval Warm Period for explanations of why both the Viking colonization of Greenland and the freezing of the River Thames actually tells us relatively little about past climate change. The actual large-scale climate changes during these intervals were complicated, and not easily summarized by simple labels and cherry-picked anecdotes. Climate changes in past centuries were significant in some parts of the world, but they were often opposite (e.g. warm vs. cold) in different regions at any given time, in sharp contrast with the global synchrony of 20th century warming. You keep reprinting this info. But every time I check, there are plenty of perfectly sober scientific articles referencing studies in the Sargasso Sea or New Zealand, which say that the Medieval Warm Period was global. Like this: Science 23 February 2001: Vol. 291. no. 5508, pp. 1497 - 1499 DOI: 10.1126/science.291.5508.1497 Prev \| Table of Contents \| Next Perspectives PALEOCLIMATE: Was the Medieval Warm Period Global? Wallace S. Broecker During the Medieval Warm Period (800 to 1200 A.D.), the Vikings colonized Greenland. In his Perspective, Broecker discusses whether this warm period was global or regional in extent. He argues that it is the last in a long series of climate fluctuations in the North Atlantic, that it was likely global, and that the present warming should be attributed in part to such an oscillation, upon which the warming due to greenhouse gases is superimposed. sciencemag.org I might add that these studies also deny the perfect synchronicity of warming claimed in your paper. They also point out the variability and complexity of climate, and the uncertainty of the models available.

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (190636)	7/2/2006 3:24:49 PM
From: Brumar89	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Okay, you're not "implying" you're explicitly charging everyone who admits there was a Medieval WArm Period of being bribed by Exxon to hold a position they know is false. I repeat, your claim is ridiculous. There are lots of historical and scientific studies showing the MWP did exist and that temps were as high or higher than at present (and I've posted a bunch to you). Simply claiming that all the evidence that undercuts the hockey stick chart is faked in order to get oil industry money is not believable by normal rational people. One record does not a global Medieval warm period make. 'Global' is the key word there. It turns out that many of the so-called 'MWP's seen in seperate records actually occur at different times It's not one record. The evidence is global, from Egypt and east Africa, China, Austria, China, the US southwest and elsewhere in addition to the north Atlantic. And the evidence does overlap in time. Secondly, a quick reality check shows that Greenland's ice cap is hundreds of thousands of years old and covers 95% of that island, so just how different could it have been only 1000 years ago? Just different enough for people to farm and graze cattle in a part of Greenland for a few centuries, which can't be done today. Ad even a global warming alarmist has to admit: It very likely was a bit warmer when he landed for the first time than it was when the last settlers starved due to a number of factors, climate change a likely major one. More on the Vikings in Greenland: Viking settlement of Greenland lasted for approximately 300 years. In 985 AD, Erik the Red became the first Viking to discover Greenland. From that initial settlement, the colony in Greenland grew to over 300 farms, 22 churches and a nunnery. However, settlement of Greenland collapsed in the 14th century and the colonies were never heard from again after 1408 AD. mnh.si.edu