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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: LLCF who wrote (24274)7/2/2006 3:51:00 AM
From: Solon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 28931
 
"you don't "formulate" the vast majority of them AT ALL"

You perhaps wish to be snippy over the use of words. My point was that ideas are not things that are "discovered" by people. They are simply how people experience and interpret those experiences. At the simplest level it is about knowing a difference between hot and cold, soft and hard, light and dark, wet and dry, etc. As the central processing unit (the brain and its feeders) becomes more sophisticated...the "ideas" involved with our perceptions take on finer levels of complexity. The simplest thoughts are direct perceptions such as pain or pleasure. The pain does not exist independently of the person experiencing a biochemical reaction in nerve endings. Pain that existed to some Egyptian getting bit by a snake 5000 years ago is a pain independent and separate from every other pain ever experienced.

When a person is unborn--no ideas. When a person has a stroke, his/her ideas are dramatically affected. If all thinking creatures are dead there are no ideas. That is my point. If you don't understand that, then you don't understand it. You only have your brain to work with in these matters. Different brains are able to apprehend ideas at different levels of complexity.



To: LLCF who wrote (24274)7/2/2006 9:39:56 AM
From: Solon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 28931
 
The words of Helen Keller are instructive here. They would seem to support the hypotheses that language is in some way critical to consciousness. The lives of Victor and Genie and their inability to acquire language certainly indicates that this ability has a critical window in time. Just as babies with cataracts who have them removed after the first year have no improvement of vision because the vision tuning mechanism has shut down and they are unable to make sense of the light entering the retina.

Feral children without language, then, are essentially without thought, without ideas, without emotion, and without consciousness.

"Before my teacher came to me, I did not know that I am. I lived in a world that was a noworld. I cannot hope to describe adequately that unconscious, yet conscious time of nothingness. I did not know that I knew aught, or that I lived or acted or desired. I had neither will nor intellect. I was carried along to objects and acts by a certain blind natural impetus . . . I can remember all this, not because I knew that it was so, but because I have tactual memory. It enables me to remember that I never contracted my forehead in the act of thinking. I never viewed anything before hand or chose it. I also recall tactually the fact that never in a start of the body or a heart-beat did I feel that I loved or cared for anything. My inner life, then, was a blank without past, present, or future, without hope or anticipation"

Again...

"When I learned the meaning of "I" and "me" and found that I was something, I began to think. Then consciousness first existed for me. Thus it was not the sense of touch that brought me knowledge. It was the awakening of my soul that first rendered my senses their value, their cognizance of objects, names, qualities, and properties. Thought made me conscious of love, joy, and all the emotions"