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To: Dale Baker who wrote (47216)	7/12/2006 3:58:28 PM
From: tdl4138	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 118717

They sure are...lol Take the time to go to JOE's webb site. Talk about marketing a concept. The prices they've been commanding are nothing short of ludicrous. Drove by "Summer Camp" last week. Everything in the area was literally "For Sale". There's nothing there....at all. No schools, shopping, restaurants....FOR MILES. Not even a gas station. Nearest town, and it isn't much, is about 10 miles down the road. Even with our hyper-overinflated RE, JOE properties are absurdly priced. As to all this "valuable land"....thats too funny. Its mainly scrub land. Look at the pictures on their own webb site. A whole lot of it is unbuildable wetlands. Looked at another webb site, I believe International Paper. They're selling large tracts in the panhandle for 3-4K an acre. Other than the waterfront they have at ridiculous pricing, the whole concept is nothing but marketing. Just my thoughts...

To: Dale Baker who wrote (47216)	7/12/2006 4:20:17 PM
From: Travis_Bickle	Respond to of 118717

I owned some for a while but my problem is I don't really know much about options so they make me nervous compared to being short. I did make a good decision on the WCI puts but while they have been very profitable I have no idea whether I paid a fair price for them. Re Florida real estate, I see Palm Beach, Martin, Hillsborough and Pinellas counties at least once a month. Latest I saw was Gulf Blvd. in Pinellas on the shore, the most I counted was 5 for sale signs in a row, though to be fair one of those was for a condominium of maybe 30 units. The others were older homes which would be torn down. Hillsborough has a big condo conversion problem: “In March, Russell Patterson bought a one-bedroom unit in the apartment-to-condominium conversion complex Oxford Place at Tampa Palms. Now, the developer has decided to turn the units it hasn’t sold, about 180, back into apartments.” “The rents on those units are less than the $995 a month Patterson needs to charge to pay his mortgage and homeowner’s association fees. Even more frustrating, he said, his contract forbids him to sell his unit before the developer sells all of its own. ‘I’m stuck, and this complex is not what I was sold,’ Patterson said.” “Nearly every converted apartment property has empty units, and some developers are changing course and renting units instead to keep from losing money or being forced into foreclosure. Some are taking drastic measures to compete with other condo sellers, a move that leaves people who purchased an apartment feeling trapped and fearing their property values will go down.” “‘I’m not crazy about this. We’d rather have owners’ in the complex, said Matt Carter, who bought a two-bedroom converted condo in New Tampa. ‘At the same time, though, owners are renting out, too, so I guess this is going to happen one way or another.’” “There is a glut of converted apartments, (developer) Tony Martin said, because too many developers jumped in on the condo craze. ‘It’s a tough business today,’ he said. ‘I don’t think anybody predicted this.’” “The conversions led to a reduction of 18,000 rental units in 2005. The result is predictable. Apartment rents have soared. Because many of these investors will be renting out their units, Bernard Markstein said, the inventory will swell again, and competition will force rental rates down. ‘Real estate is cyclical,’ Markstein said. ‘This is the way it works.’” thehousingbubbleblog.com Martin county I saw more for sale signs than last month, especially among big dollar houses that must have been built on spec. Palm Beach, same as Martin. Along Flagler Drive there are some very expensive and new homes for sale, probably built on spec, and some lots. The wood frame and stucco jobs in other parts of the city seem to be staying on the market forever.