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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Thomas M. who wrote (24122)	7/15/2006 5:35:28 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 544153

you either don't know the facts or you don't value Arab lives or property It's always interesting interacting with you, Tom. The most intriguing thing is that your rhetoric, the things you say, and the way you say them, are aggressively offensive and don't reflect well at all on the cause you support. There's at least two sides to the story about the events. Well, three. The Arab side, the Israeli side, and all the rest of us who watch the interaction and live in the same world that the antics of these two sides infect with hatred and violence and evil (or if you don't believe in evil, something that looks remarkably like evil.) You see your side, you don't see the other side, you won't see the other side, and, after all this time I feel comfortable in saying you can't see the other side. You're right, and only you are right. If only the rest of the world would acknowledge that you're right and only you are right. And I guess you have your knickers in a twist because you come here spoiling for a fight, with the very people you wish would agree with you and help you. Very odd behavior. I think most of the rest of the world thinks that there is both justice and injustice in the Arab side and the Israeli side. There are people who think only the Arabs are right, and there are people who think only the Israelis are right, but not that many. I think it's widely accepted that neither the Arab side nor the Israeli side will give an inch or respect the other, so it's not a problem that can be solved, only managed. But all out nuclear war in the Middle East is not acceptable, no matter which side starts it. The rest of the world will not tolerate it.

To: Thomas M. who wrote (24122)	7/15/2006 7:00:46 PM
From: thames_sider	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 544153

you either don't know the facts or you don't value Arab lives or property. Because I know you are one of SI's best political posters, I'm 100% sure it's the former. Well, thanks. I think. I suspect many on SI would accuse me of valuing Arab lives above their own... and, thinking about it, I'd value the life of a slug more highly than said members, so they're probably right. How is Hezbollah going to recover the hostages that Israel is holding without doing a prisoner swap? A prisoner swap is fine. Do that good thing. But attacking soldiers, who are doing no harm to you or yours, across an international border, from a far more powerful army, is definitely an act of stupidity. It may also be either an act of terrorism, or an act of war: and I think actually Israel's deliberately viewing it as the latter, and hence acting out childish vengeance on all Lebanon. But Hezbollah surely knew that this would happen. Yep, they will doubtless want to swap prisoners. But grabbing their own hostages in such a blatant way against a powerful and provenly ruthless enemy is stupid, and doing so across international borders unprovoked is either terrorism or war. My own hope is that Israel realises it'll get international acceptance and protection only if it goes back to internationally accepted borders. And no one is going to attack the borders of '66, Egypt and Jordan and Syria have learnt that lesson even without nukes against them. Plus of course the West would crush anyone trying it. But IMO the only way Israel will accept this is if the USA cuts off the colossal military subsidies, and agrees to massive sanctions and suspensions as for any other ME bully occupying other countries... The alternative will be that Israel keeps pushing its luck until either the regional opponents have nothing much to lose, they push their own home-grown terrorists until they truly have nothing to lose, or rising sea levels make the whole issue moot. My money's on the last.