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Politics : Polite Political Discussion- is it Possible? An Experiment. -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Thomas M. who wrote (246)	7/30/2006 6:24:00 PM
From: epicure	Respond to of 1695

Obviously everyone can (and does, when they care) argue the other side "started" the wars, or whatever incident is under discussion. IMO there is a lot of bad behavior on both sides, and figuring out who is really at fault at this point is impossible, in terms of root causes. You can't go in and manufacture a country on land that belongs to other people and have it come out well- unless you are China, and are prepared to kill everyone who disagrees with you. ......... [On] November 2, 1917, Lord Balfour announced that the U.K. favoured the creation of the state of Israel in Palestine but emphasised "that nothing shall be done which will prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine". Since then it has been downhill for Palestinians. Before the creation of Israel, Palestinians owned 90 per cent of the land. The first Arab-Israeli war of 1948 left the Jews in control of 78 per cent of Palestine. Three quarters of a million Palestinians were displaced at that time. After the 1967 war, Israel occupied all the Palestinian land. Today Palestine nominally exists only in Gaza and a number of "bantustans". Two-thirds of Palestinians are either refugees or displaced people. ...........a sad sad history it is hinduonnet.com

To: Thomas M. who wrote (246)	7/30/2006 7:13:25 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1695

I guess X is prepared to leave this country and give back to the Native Americans. She didn't say where she planned to go. Conversion and Israel since they will take in any Jew? Her own quote says that that land was given to Israel by Britain, then the colonial power in possession of it. So why isn't it theirs? Since we're on the subject where do YOU plan on going? I plan on being behind my rifle ready to take on any and all comers. All wars? After the British announced they were giving part of their Middle Eastern posssessions to Israel, and Israel declared its statehood in 1948, the surrounding Arab states invaded. Now I find that a bit hard to interpret as "Israel starting the war". I'd say the Arabs started it with an invasion of Israeli territory. There UN lines of partition. The Arab armies violated those lines. The 1956 war is more complicated. Egypt wanted control of the Suez Canal. The Canal was legally owned by France and Britain, who considered Egyptian expropriation nothing but theft. The Egyptians had already blocked Israeli use of the Straits of Tiran, its only outlet to the Red Sea, and an act of war under international law. All 3 nations decided to go war with Egypt. The US, for reasons, connected with the Cold War, forced an end to the conflict. Israel regained use of the Straits of Tiran. In 1956, Israel, had endured years of shelling of Israeli territory by Syria- -an act of war by itself. In 1956 tensions heightened and Egypt once more closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping- -again, an act of war. The Arab states bordering Israeli started massing their armies along the Israeli. Border. Israel had no intention of being a sitting target and struck first, destroying the Arab air forces. Without air cover, the Arab ground forces were sitting ducks and quickly defeated. You are absolutely, unquestionably wrong about Israel starting the 1973 Yom Kippur War. The Arabs attacked first and there is no question of this. Yom Kippur is a major Jewish religious holiday for which ALL work and activity that is not absolutely essential stops. The Arabs picked this time, figuring they could could get a jump on the Israelis. They almost did. They Israelis were on the verge of retreat and likely loss of the war when President Nixon ordered an aerial resupply of Israel that turned the tide back in their favor. They went on to win the war. In all cases, the Arabs either violated international conventions or committed actual acts of war- -as the did at the start of the current fighting. You were saying?