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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: geode00 who wrote (194611)8/2/2006 11:00:54 PM
From: Hawkmoon  Respond to of 281500
 
It's a big refugee camp and the warden decided to starve everyone because of the way they voted in a democratic election.

Gaza's a "refugee" camp? They OWN IT ALL NOW!! There are no Jews living there. Yet they still attack Israel..

As for the West Bank, there is a open proposal on the table that the Palestinians only have to accept and they will own 95% of the West Bank..

And they will have a border with Jordan, so they are hardly refugees.. Especially since most of their parents held Jordanian citizenship.

mideastweb.org

As for depending upon Israel for electricity and jobs, one would think developing their own economy would be more important than provoking Israel to destroy it..

Gaza has tremendous Natural Gas reserves just off-shore. But are they developing these resources?

No. Because no one will touch any such investment in Palestine, except the most insane speculator. British Gas is supposed to have an agreement with the PA and Egypt, but I haven't heard anything about them actually putting money into the project for exploitation. They've just dug a test well.

west.net

If this happened to your family, what would you do? Capitulate? Bend over?

I would be grateful for what I have, considering the corrupt and depotic leaders I've had over the past 30 years.

I'd be thinking about bringing my children up to have their own families instead of strapping bombs on their backs and sending them off to become martyrs.

So cry me a river...

Hawk



To: geode00 who wrote (194611)8/2/2006 11:19:03 PM
From: Hawkmoon  Respond to of 281500
 
Either give up the hypocrisy or stop whining about looking like a complete hypocrite. If this happened to your family, what would you do? Capitulate? Bend over?

Uh.. btw.. the Jews were refugees for several thousand years, kicked out of their homeland.

And a million Jews were kicked out of the Arab countries they had lived in for centuries after Israel was founded.

So FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, Israel is the result of THEIR NOT BENDING OVER ANYMORE...

And while I'm not Jewish, I can certainly see their point.

Hawk



To: geode00 who wrote (194611)8/3/2006 12:16:41 AM
From: stockman_scott  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Israel’s Dependency on the Drug of Militarism
_____________________________________________________________

by Robert Scheer

Published on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 by TruthDig

Those who mindlessly support Israel, right or wrong, from President Bush on through the cheerleaders in Congress and the media, betray the security of the Jewish state. They are enablers who have encouraged Israel’s dependency on the drug of militarism as a false escape from the difficult accommodations needed to bring peace to the Middle East.

For too many pundits and politicians, bombing just seems so much simpler — until, as happened in Qana, Lebanon, on Sunday, those bombs blow up to your nation’s disgrace, slaughtering scores of innocents, whose only crime was to be in the crossfire. The alternative to such excessive violence—an authentic peace process—had been supported by every American president since Harry Truman. Yet it was abruptly abandoned, indeed ridiculed, by the Bush administration, which bizarrely believes it can re-create the Middle East in a more U.S.-friendly form. The president has framed this process with a simplistic good-versus-evil template, which has the Christian West and Jewish Israel on an unnecessary collision course with the Muslim world.

Israel foolishly jumped at the tempting opportunity presented by Bush, who believes all the complex issues dividing the Middle East can be neatly summarized as the choosing of sides in a playground game called “the post-9/11 war on terror.”

“The current crisis is part of a larger struggle between the forces of freedom and the forces of terror in the Middle East,” Bush said Monday. “When democracy spreads in the Middle East, the people of that troubled region will have a better future.” Apparently, Bush is unclear on the fact that Lebanon’s prime minister — elected after the country’s celebrated “cedar revolution” — has condemned the uncritical support provided by the United States for Israel since this conflagration began. Or that Hezbollah is an important part of that democratic government because of its popularity among the Shiite Muslims of southern Lebanon. Bush’s neoconservative foreign-policy cabal argued that troublesome regimes, such as that of Saddam Hussein, could be easily transformed into pliable, West-leaning democracies. Instead, the opposite has happened. Throughout the region, elections hyped by Bush have turned out to be a vehicle for the expression of religion-fueled rage against Israel and its U.S. sponsor.

Even the elected leaders in “liberated” Iraq are denouncing Israel and the United States. On Monday, the Iraqi prime minister appeared at a memorial service in which he and other speakers condemned Israel. Grand Ayatollah Ali al Sistani, the most important leader in post-Hussein Iraq, broke from his usually circumspect public statements to denounce this “outrageous crime,” while Moqtada al Sadr, leader of the country’s most powerful militia and a key parliamentary bloc, railed against “the ominous trio of the United States, Israel and Britain, which is terrorizing Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan and other occupied nations.”

Meanwhile, Israel, with U.S. support, has ignored what it had learned through its occupation of Palestinian territories and previous disastrous attempts to subdue Lebanon: Compromise from a position of strength is more effective than seeking a pyrrhic total victory. Not only has each attempt to crush local resistance begat more radical and disciplined enemies, such as Hezbollah and Hamas, but the likelihood of rage-fueled “blowback” is exponentially increased.

“There’s going to be another 9/11, and then we’re going to hear all the usual claptrap about how it’s good versus evil, and they hate us because we’re good and democratic, and they hate our values and all the other material that comes out of the rear end of a bull,” London Independent correspondent Robert Fisk told interviewer Amy Goodman of the radio program “Democracy Now!” after watching dozens of children’s corpses being stuffed into plastic bags or wrapped in rugs.

It is true that the Israeli withdrawals of the past half-decade, nearly complete in the case of Lebanon and cynically minimal in the Palestinian territories, did not resolve all the disputes or stop all violence. Yet the abandonment of the peace process and the renewed reliance on bombs will prove far more costly for Israel. Long after Bush is gone from office, Israel will be threatened by a new generation of enemies whose political memory was decisively shaped by these horrible images emerging from Lebanon. At that point, Israelis attempting to make peace with those they must coexist with will recognize that with friends such as Bush and his neoconservative mentors, they would not lack for enemies.

© 2006 Creators Syndicate Inc.



To: geode00 who wrote (194611)8/3/2006 12:40:19 AM
From: Nadine Carroll  Respond to of 281500
 
Israel collects duties on foreign imports headed for the Palestinian territories and charges value added tax (VAT) on Israeli goods and services headed for those areas. These totaled about $75 million per month in 2005, according to the Israeli Ministry of Finance.

Out of this figure, Israel withholds money to pay the PA's water and electricity bills, which Palestinians have refused to pay for years to protest Israeli occupation. Israel withholds about $15 million each month to cover these bills. That leaves about $60 million that Israel would normally pass along to the PA; however, since the Hamas government was elected, Israel has been withholding this revenue.


How were these arrangements made? A: under Oslo. Q: Does Hamas uphold the Oslo agreements? A: No. they don't recognize Israel and they support "armed resistance" against Israel, contrary to Oslo.

So if Hamas has reneged on the agreement, why should Israel keep paying its end of the agreement like fools?