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Politics : Polite Political Discussion- is it Possible? An Experiment. -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (556)	8/5/2006 10:54:54 AM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1695

Oh JC, what a mishmash of issues! I hope you are wrong. While I am not opposed to marriage for gays and fail to see it as morally threatening as you, it doesn't mean I am a screaming liberal by a long shot! I am furious at the border situation, have serious concerns about welfare programs(having worked in them) and their self-defeating structure, and am not a "peacenik" just because I opposed this war. We lag far behind many European countries in terms of "permissiveness". In fact, we are viewed as very uptight and priggish. Our puritan roots still govern our laws and our views to a large extent. One man's permissiveness is another man's enlightenment.

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (556)	8/5/2006 10:54:58 AM
From: Rambi	Respond to of 1695

whoops-- repeat

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (556)	8/5/2006 5:52:02 PM
From: Brumar89	Respond to of 1695

Take heart. Causes which over-reach don't succeed. The gay movement is taking on popular admired institutions like the Boy Scouts and the Salvation Army using the courts to enforce radical goals. As people learn about such things they will earn ill will and that will find expression in legislation. They've earned my ill will but if they had contented themselves with seeking social and legal tolerance and something like "civil unions" only, I'd have no objection. a huge welfare state The welfare reform of the last decade is reason for optimism. Unfortunately, the biggest welfare state problem is socialized retirement and elderly health care, not just in the US but even more in most other countries. That will be a bigger problem to deal with. whites will be a special-interest minority Not for a very long time. Although frankly, I don't care. Immigrants have always been a positive for the US in the long run and this will continue I believe. , English will be a regional dialect Not a chance. the military will be shrunk to a peacetime militia There will be financial resource issues because of the ballooning elderly population. Fortunately, we are starting from a very strong position. Our military power far exceeds any rival on the horizon and the supposed long-term challenger, China, has demographic problems much much worse than ours due to their one-child policy. India is the country to watch long term IMO. , and our society will be one of the most permissive on the globe. Things swing back and forth - the twenties followed the victorian age, which followed a period when free love ideas and libertinism produced societies like the oneida society. One of the founding fathers, Alexander Hamilton, had a public morals problem something like Bill Clinton's. Human sexuality is as old as the human race and things have been cycling between libertinism and victorianism for thousands of years.

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (556)	8/6/2006 1:11:28 AM
From: RMF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1695

J.C., I disagree on ALL those outcomes. I think in 30 years our borders will be so tight that you'll need special electronic identification devices to even cross at even the most common locations. I wouldn't doubt that whites would be a minority (I think we're pretty close right now). But we'll still control most of the capital, so our interest will continue to be SPECIAL for a good deal longer than that. I wouldn't doubt that our military would shrink, but not because of some "liberal" conspiracy but rather some VERY unsound economic policies, such as the ones being presented by the current administration. I'm sure that in 30 years our country will CONTINUE to be one of the most permissive and FREE countries on the planet. I think that's what the fellows that have died for our country in war would be hoping for.