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Politics : Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (50009)	8/12/2006 3:28:22 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

You asked where I read the cynical comments from the Brits about the latest terrorist plot. Well, here are some more from the Times Online........one of Brit.'s more conservative newspapers. They were responding to an article about the foiled terrorist plot. Oops! These are American comments........now I have to dredge up some British ones: The View from America: This incident proves that the way to fight terror is good police work, not a “war”. I realize Bush wouldn’t have been able to strut around in a flight suit, but we’d be safer today Lawrence E. Ackert The Administration will use this foiled plot to scare Americans into “staying the course”. Homeland Security is touting [it] as a success . . . Ironically this Administration never did squash al-Qaeda or bin Laden Lana Abrams Yet another summertime plot by the right wing to boost their poll numbers. Bush has no credibility and neither does Blair. They’ve pulled this stunt before Jenny No liquids or gels? Soon we’ll have to arrive at the airport two days in advance, endure cavity searches and fingerprinting, and have to board the aircraft nude. Looking forward to it. We are not winning . . . Kevin Branson The fact this was foiled by British authorities makes me take it seriously. If it was a US-only announcement of some foiled terror plot, I would regard it as just another bit of cynical White House political opportunism Greg Nathaniel After being met with growling security dogs, harassing ticketing counter agents, crass and menacing security agents, full body cavity searches and strip searches only to be offered shoeless, gagged, thirsty and blind-folded trans-Atlantic flights, will we then truly fly any safer? I doubt it Chris Force Very skeptical, on what really is going on. If indeed, a terrorist attack was uncovered then “kudos”. But, could this be all created by the UK and the US Government to gain public support for backing Israel on its so-called fight against terrorism? Bill P Could it be possible that this was vigilant police work that saved lives, you doubt junkies? Come on people. Quit being so cynical and opportunistic about sharing your anti-Bush/anti-Blair hatred. People’s lives were saved ... we should be thankful timesonline.co.uk

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (50009)	8/12/2006 3:33:34 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

Here are some from the Brits: I deplore what our government is doing in Iraq, Afghanistan and countless other places. It's obvious that these attacks and attempted attacks are pay back and we had it coming. That said, this is 2006 and by and large the UK is a pretty well functioning multi racial country. All these attacks will acheive is stirring up more trouble that may not have even been there to start with. If you chose to live in this country or any other secular nation then its pretty straight forward. Country first, religion second. If we all work together maybe we can stop our arse of a government. Guess I am over simplifying things... Posted by Stoneage on August 11, 2006 02:14 PM. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. 1. I hope Mr Blair reads this report. He is under the delusion that these Suicide Bombers commit their acts because they hate our values. He is right, if you take the values of aggressively attacking Muslim countries without reason, reeking devastation on the innocent civillian population. Or egging on other countries to do the same. But what Mr Blair should note is that these are not the values of the British people - just look at the (completely ignored) protests before the Iraq Invasion - these are the HIS values that have landed us in this mess. 2. How can a terrorist be a fascist? To quote Wikipedia: "Fascism is a radical totalitarian political philosophy that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, extreme nationalism, militarism, anti-anarchism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism." So who are the fascists? Lets tally this up. Totalitarian political philosophy - Blair. Corporatism - Blair. Authoritarianism - Blair. Nationalism - Blair and terrorist. Militarism - Blair and terrorist. Anti-anarchism - Blair. Anti-communism - Blair. Anti-liberalism - Blair and terrorist. So in the fascist stakes I make it Blair 8 Terrorists 3. Posted by halm on August 11, 2006 02:14 PM. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. This study should be required reading for all politicians and diplomats. As ever, it is percieved political injustices that radicalises individuals, and as such they require political solutions. Using phrases such as Islamic Facists helps no one. Posted by Mac105 on August 11, 2006 02:15 PM. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. I must agree, it is abject poverty that leads young Bfritish muslims to become homicide bombers. After all one of those who blew up innocent civilians at Mike's place on the seafront in Tel Aviv came form such a poor family that they had to send himm to a Public School in the UK. And of course one must remember the poverty of Osama bin Laden, who many only just be a billionaire. Its not British Policy either, in Iraq its not Zionists, Mossad, the CIA etc who are killing Muslims, its Muslims killing each other at around 100 each day. Its their war on Tolerence, Freedom, Democracy, and anything other then their own brand of Islam. There is no excuse for the new bomb plot, they were not religious icons, freedom fighters or whatever, they are just human vermin, a disgrace to any religion and the human race. How did they know hom many on the plane that they planned to destroy, were genuine Muslims who followed their own beliefs? They have no excuse, bring back public hangings for terrorists. Posted by Mike0 on August 11, 2006 02:16 PM. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. The professor is right and as soon as the British Govt. leaves the country and gives up the UK to the Islamofascists the sooner we can all stop worrying about home grown muslim terrorists and suicide bombers. Of course this study will be seized on by 'moderate' muslims and their apologists. Only this morning the so called leader of Birminghams muslims told us that he'd just arrived back from outside the homes of the arrested alleged plane bombers and he was pleased to inform the viewers that this latest incidence of police harrassment was seen by muslims watching developments as an attack on muslims and by the non muslims there as an attack on the working class. I didn't know what was more ridiculous, what he said or his wig. Posted by bedebyes on August 11, 2006 02:29 PM. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. I think Professor Pape is correct. For example, if a coalition of countries successfully (illegally or otherwise) invaded and occupied the United Kingdom under whatever pretext of right or wrong, British citizens around the world would no doubt, attempt to compel the invading counties to abandon military commitments through; "the unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property." But we would call it "resistance", rather than terrorism. Posted by ThomasCopyrightMMVI on August 11, 2006 02:31 PM. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. This is really about who has the authority to use deadly force. Trying to make a distinction about the force itself does not stand up to scrutiny and usually amounts to special pleading for those that have the power. In fact one could argue that a suicide bomber who gives his own life and looks into the eyes of his victims in in a morally superior position to an airforce pilot who bombs civilians and never has to face up to the reality of the suffering that he causes. There is a widespread consensus that a state has the right to resist a direct attack on its territory and citizens. Other situations are less clear. Where the state is ineffective or ones homeland occupied, does a citizen always have the right to resist. Does the French Resistance of World War 2, Native Americans in the nineteenth century and Hamas have the same moral authority ? What about the moral authority to use deadly force when there is no immediate threat such as the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan by US/UK? Can colonisation and forced settlement of someone else's territory by means of deadly force ever be justified ? This raises very uncomfortable questions for settler cultures such as Australia, China (Tibet), Israel and the US and for those countries that were colonizers such as my own (UK). Linked to the moral authority to use deadly force is the question of whether ever human being has an equal value. The West certainly acts as if an Arab human being is inferior to an American or European person. How about a Jewish state in Bavaria ? I don't find it surprising at all that the western media characterises terrorists as evil fanatics and their methods as beyond contempt. Looking at the situation logically would cause us to have to face our own hypocrisy, double standards and racism. Terrorism is the poor man's Collateral Damage. Posted by david119 on August 11, 2006 02:51 PM. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. Many in this country would welcome the overthrow of the Blair 'regime'. So we would support 'regime change' in this country. One night - Shock and Awe! Bombing raids. Blair goes into hiding. Within 72 hours the 'regime changers' are everywhere. The 'Blair' era is announced as history. The 'regime changers' are now in charge. We are all supposed to be thankful. The regime changers are 'The French !!!' How would we behave? Posted by MrSid on August 11, 2006 02:57 PM. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. First of all i don't believe that such attacks were of a real threat. The west creat fear in thier population to justify thier foreign policy. And if there was a real threat why don't they knock on the door of a suspect's home and question and prevent him like they will do in other criminal cases such as murder, rape and fraud. They are concerned about muslims being extreamist they why do they create this unnecessary hysteria in the press which demonises muslims. Treat muslim suspects like any other suspects and the muslim population will realise yes the west does want peace. Posted by truth99 on August 11, 2006 03:20 PM. Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment. blogs.guardian.co.uk