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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (197058)	8/13/2006 7:07:26 AM
From: jttmab	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

But THEY SHOULD NOT BE TREATED ANY MORE HARSHLY THAN IS LEGITIMATELY PERMISSIBLE FOR DISCIPLINING A CHILD under US law. There goes water boarding down the toilet. And it was so much fun too. It sounds like a theme park ride, doesn't it? Let's all go water boarding. Yeah! ..... Then again, maybe water boarding a child is legal under US law. Someone needs to check. jttmab

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (197058)	8/13/2006 8:24:26 AM
From: GST	Respond to of 281500

When Americans begin sending their children to secret US prisons without knowing where they will be and without any visitation or recourse to legal protection or observers of any kind, where they will be "disciplined" exactly as other prisoners for a period of time with no end, then you will have an analogy -- a pointless analogy, but an analogy. You can defend America or you can dishonor America -- it is sad to see that you chose dishonor. A person who resorts to torture, murder or rape is not fit to serve.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (197058)	8/13/2006 9:33:36 AM
From: jttmab	Respond to of 281500

I see we have a new plan! U.S. general lays out plan to quell Baghdad violence Troops to concentrate on four violent areas By ROBERT BURNS THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published Sunday, August 13, 2006 BAGHDAD, Iraq - The new push by U.S. and Iraqi forces to reverse a rising tide of violence in Baghdad will target four violent "hotspots" in the city, the American general in charge of the plan said Saturday. Those parts of the city have experienced frequent kidnappings, suicide bombings and revenge killings by Shiites and Sunnis. Maj. Gen. James Thurman, commander of the Army's 4th Infantry Division, said the renewed push for stability began Aug. 7 in the Dora area of southwestern Baghdad, a notoriously violent part of the city. He said sweeps of Dora neighborhoods had captured 179 people thus far and killed 25 "terrorists." The other three targeted districts are Mansour and the Ghazaliyah-Shula areas of western Baghdad and the Azamiyah area in the northeast, he said, adding that the goal is to quell the violence and restore ordinary Iraqis' confidence in their government's ability to provide security and basic services. "I'm confident, based on what I'm seeing right now, that we've got a positive trend here happening," Thurman said in an interview after joining Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, in a question-and-answer session with several dozen soldiers, sailors and airmen at Camp Liberty. "We've got four major hotspots where we've had a lot of sectarian killings," Thurman said. "And we've got a plan that will zero in on reducing the number of murders, kidnappings, assassinations and car bombs." Pace, who arrived Saturday from Washington, met with Thurman and other senior American commanders and addressed the troops at Camp Liberty to thank them for their service. A few of the soldiers in his audience were with the Alaska-based 172nd Stryker Brigade, whose one-year tour of duty in Iraq was extended by four months recently in order to add another 3,500 soldiers to Thurman's force in the capital. Thurman said he has received another 2,000 extra troops from other units. Thurman said he now has 32,444 U.S. troops in Baghdad and areas south of the capital, as well as 32,554 Iraqi forces. Of the U.S. total, about 13,500 are in Baghdad proper, he said. As recently as a month ago, U.S. officials thought they were going to be able to reduce U.S. troop levels this fall, but Thurman said the rise in strife between different religious groups "had us worried" and prompted him to ask his superiors for more combat power "so we could quell this and once and for all get rid of the people that are causing the problems here." ... sj-r.com Excellent. They have finally thought about getting rid of the people causing the problems once and for all. Great idea. Looks like in a few weeks peace and security will reign over all of Iraq. Since violence in Iraq is virtually behind us, maybe we can talk about important stuff now. Like putting a stop to the possibility of burning the American flag in the US.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (197058)	8/14/2006 12:54:27 PM
From: Noel de Leon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Here is an excerpt of the Geneva convention 2nd. protocol of 1977 that the US has NOT signed. "Part II. Humane Treatment Art 4 Fundamental guarantees 1. All persons who do not take a direct part or who have ceased to take part in hostilities, whether or not their liberty has been restricted, are entitled to respect for their person, honour and convictions and religious practices. They shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction. It is prohibited to order that there shall be no survivors. 2. Without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, the following acts against the persons referred to in paragraph I are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever: (a) violence to the life, health and physical or mental well-being of persons, in particular murder as well as cruel treatment such as torture, mutilation or any form of corporal punishment; (b) collective punishments; (c) taking of hostages; (d) acts of terrorism; (e) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment, rape, enforced prostitution and any form or indecent assault; (f) slavery and the slave trade in all their forms; (g) pillage; (h) threats to commit any or the foregoing acts. 3. Children shall be provided with the care and aid they require, and in particular: (a) they shall receive an education, including religious and moral education, in keeping with the wishes of their parents, or in the absence of parents, of those responsible for their care; (b) all appropriate steps shall be taken to facilitate the reunion of families temporarily separated; (c) children who have not attained the age of fifteen years shall neither be recruited in the armed forces or groups nor allowed to take part in hostilities; (d) the special protection provided by this Article to children who have not attained the age of fifteen years shall remain applicable to them if they take a direct part in hostilities despite the provisions of subparagraph (c) and are captured; (e) measures shall be taken, if necessary, and whenever possible with the consent of their parents or persons who by law or custom are primarily responsible for their care, to remove children temporarily from the area in which hostilities are taking place to a safer area within the country and ensure that they are accompanied by persons responsible for their safety and well-being. Art 5. Persons whose liberty has been restricted 1. In addition to the provisions of Article 4 the following provisions shall be respected as a minimum with regard to persons deprived of their liberty for reasons related to the armed conflict, whether they are interned or detained; (a) the wounded and the sick shall be treated in accordance with Article 7; (b) the persons referred to in this paragraph shall, to the same extent as the local civilian population, be provided with food and drinking water and be afforded safeguards as regards health and hygiene and protection against the rigours of the climate and the dangers of the armed conflict; (c) they shall be allowed to receive individual or collective relief; (d) they shall be allowed to practise their religion and, if requested and appropriate, to receive spiritual assistance from persons, such as chaplains, performing religious functions; (e) they shall, if made to work, have the benefit of working conditions and safeguards similar to those enjoyed by the local civilian population. 2. Those who are responsible for the internment or detention of the persons referred to in paragraph 1 shall also, within the limits of their capabilities, respect the following provisions relating to such persons: (a) except when men and women of a family are accommodated together, women shall be held in quarters separated from those of men and shall be under the immediate supervision of women; (b) they shall be allowed to send and receive letters and cards, the number of which may be limited by competent authority if it deems necessary; (c) places of internment and detention shall not be located close to the combat zone. The persons referred to in paragraph 1 shall be evacuated when the places where they are interned or detained become particularly exposed to danger arising out of the armed conflict, if their evacuation can be carried out under adequate conditions of safety; (d) they shall have the benefit of medical examinations; (e) their physical or mental health and integrity shall not be endangered by any unjustified act or omission. Accordingly, it is prohibited to subject the persons described in this Article to any medical procedure which is not indicated by the state of health of the person concerned, and which is not consistent with the generally accepted medical standards applied to free persons under similar medical circumstances. 3. Persons who are not covered by paragraph 1 but whose liberty has been restricted in any way whatsoever for reasons related to the armed conflict shall be treated humanely in accordance with Article 4 and with paragraphs 1 (a), (c) and (d), and 2 (b) of this Article. 4. If it is decided to release persons deprived of their liberty, necessary measures to ensure their safety shall be taken by those so deciding." icrc.org