Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Bush-The Mastermind behind 9/11? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Doug R who wrote (13463)	8/15/2006 11:19:03 PM
From: TigerPaw	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20039

the concrete of the buildings would begin to pulverize The WTC primarily used concrete in each floor, and it was just a few inches thick and would also pulverise when hit by the floor above. Much of the dust is of drywall (calcium sulphate). Remember this picture? Message 22718748 The floors were thin enough to hardly show up. TP

To: Doug R who wrote (13463)	8/15/2006 11:50:32 PM
From: TigerPaw	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20039

There is no way within the laws of physics that there was enough heat generated by the fires in the buildings and/or the act of the buildings themselves falling that pools of molten steel would be created and remain molten for several weeks at sub-basement levels. For thousands of years iron age smelters were used to create just these types of molten metal puddles. All they used was a dried mud kiln to insulate a charcoal fire and blow some air on the charcoal though a blowpipe. Those conditions would have been present in many parts of the 6 story debris pile. The fires, insulated by pulverized drywall and concrete and fed air by the temperature difference on various ends of the snaking tunnels of twisted wreckage would have created, by random, natural smelters. This photo of the still burning debris pile was taken three months after the collapse.

To: Doug R who wrote (13463)	8/16/2006 1:06:47 AM
From: Proud Deplorable	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20039

Observed Temperatures around 1000°C and Sulfidation in WTC 7 Steel One of the relatively few previous peer-reviewed papers relating to the WTC collapses provides "An Initial Microstructural Analysis of A36 Steel from WTC Building 7." This brief but important letter states: While the exact location of this beam could not be determined, the unexpected erosion of the steel found in this beam warranted a study of microstructural changes that occurred in this steel. Examination of other sections in this beam is underway. ANALYSIS Rapid deterioration of the steel was a result of heating with oxidation in combination with intergranular melting due to the presence of sulfur. The formation of the eutectic mixture of iron oxide and iron sulfide lowers the temperature at which liquid can form in this steel. This strongly suggests that the temperatures in this region of the steel beam approached ~1000°C by a process similar to making a “blacksmith’s weld” in a hand forge. (Barnett, 2001) How were these ~1000°C temperatures in the steel beam achieved? As noted above in the quotation from Eagar, it is difficult to reach temperatures above 650°C in the type of diffuse fires evident in the WTC buildings, let alone in the steel columns where heat is transported away by the enormous heat sink of the steel structure. So the high temperatures deduced by Barnett, Biederman and Sisson are indeed remarkable. Then there is the rather mysterious sulfidation of the steel reported in this paper -- What is the origin of this sulfur? No solid answer is given in any of the official reports. Of course, there is a straightforward way to achieve 1000°C temperatures (and well above) in the presence of sulfur, and that is to use thermate (or a similar variation of thermite). Thermate is a high-level thermite analog containing sulfur developed by the military (see dodtechmatch.com. Thermate combines aluminum/iron oxide (thermite) with barium nitrate (29%) and sulfur (typically 2% although more sulfur could be added). The thermate reaction proceeds rapidly and is much faster than thermite in degrading steel leading to structural failure. Thus, both the unusually high temperatures and the extraordinary observation of steel-sulfidation (Barnett, 2001) can be accounted for -- if the use of thermate is allowed in the discussion. Note that other oxidizers (like KMnO4) and metals (like titanium and silicon) are commonly used in thermite analogs. Finally, sulfidation was observed in structural steel samples found from both WTC7 and one of the WTC Towers, as reported in Appendix C in the FEMA report. It is quite possible that more than one type of cutter-charge was involved on 9/11, e.g., HMX, RDX and thermate in some combination. While gypsum in the buildings is a source of sulfur, it is highly unlikely that this sulfur could find its way into the structural steel in such a way as to form a eutectic. The evidence for the use of some variant of thermite such as sulfur-containing thermate in the destruction of the WTC Towers and building 7 is sufficiently compelling to warrant serious investigation.