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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sam who wrote (198870)	8/23/2006 4:34:23 PM
From: michael97123	Respond to of 281500

"One of the few things that I think the Bush admin did right was the diplomacy they used vis a vis Afghanistan just after 9.11. Israel should have learned from that, in the way I suggested above, IMHO." Good point. US didnt go charging in. There was a window in which the afgan regime could have ended up surviving. I suspect thought that lebanon would in this sense have done the same thing as the taliban but israel could have certainly given it a try.

To: Sam who wrote (198870)	8/23/2006 4:39:02 PM
From: Ichy Smith	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

I disagreed with Israel's tactics--they should have gone to the Lebanese govt first, then to the UN and stated how the act was intolerable, that the Lebanese should disarm Hezballah and get the kidnapped soldiers back, and if they didn't do that, then there would be serious consequences. Only after some extensive diplomacy should they have bombed (if at all). But however stupid Israel's tactics were, that doesn't change the fundamental fact that the military apparatus in southern Lebanon should have been dismantled Israel did all that, and waited 6 years for the disarmament. How many visits to the UN, the observers have been there 30 years or so, should Israel make before they decide "well this is a waste of time" I still don't understand if the Israelis moved 2 million people and had bomb shelters for the rest, where were the lebanese bomb shelters? why weren't 2 million people evacuated. I know the US is slow on evacuations, but if Israel can do it, why can't Lebanon? If hizbollah can afford 15,000 missiles why not a few bomb shelters for the poor?

To: Sam who wrote (198870)	8/23/2006 5:11:29 PM
From: geode00	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

1. You are assuming that Hezbollah acted in a vacuum. Israeli propaganda thanks you. Here's the other side of the propaganda war: ---------- "....Sadly, this is pure analytical nonsense. Hizbullah's capture of two Israeli soldiers on July 12 was a direct result of Israel's silent but unrelenting aggression against Lebanon, which in turn is part of a six-decades long Arab-Israeli conflict. Since its withdrawal of occupation forces from southern Lebanon in May 2000, Israel has violated the United Nations-monitored "blue line" on an almost daily basis, according to UN reports. Hizbullah's military doctrine, articulated in the early 1990s, states that it will fire Katyusha rockets into Israel only in response to Israeli attacks on Lebanese civilians or Hizbullah's leadership; this indeed has been the pattern. In the process of its violations, Israel has terrorized the general population, destroyed private property, and killed numerous civilians. This past February, for instance, 15-year-old shepherd Yusuf Rahil was killed by unprovoked Israeli cross-border fire as he tended his flock in southern Lebanon. Israel has assassinated its enemies in the streets of Lebanese cities and continues to occupy Lebanon's Shebaa Farms area, while refusing to hand over the maps of mine fields that continue to kill and cripple civilians in southern Lebanon more than six years after the war supposedly ended. What peace did Hizbullah shatter? Hizbullah's capture of the soldiers took place in the context of this ongoing conflict, which in turn is fundamentally shaped by realities in the Palestinian territories. To the vexation of Israel and its allies, Hizbullah - easily the most popular political movement in the Middle East - unflinchingly stands with the Palestinians...." csmonitor.com 2. When did Israel "meddle" with the Syrian military? So you actually think that Syria left on its own? 3. The point of sovereign states is not to be at constant war with each other but to have diplomacy ---- an alternative method of conflict resolution ---- available. The same is true of the political process. It's an alternative method for conflict resolution. Rightwingers the world over OTOH resort to pushing, shoving, demeaning, humiliating, demanding and then go directly to war.