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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Elroy who wrote (200383)	8/31/2006 10:35:08 AM
From: bentway	Respond to of 281500

"A "closer to reality" analogy would be if the Mormons tried to secede and make Utah a new MormonCountry. We wouldn't say "Adios, lets get a free trade treaty going!", we'd send in the national guard, army, Dick Cheney w/rifle, Hawkmoon and a few b-52 bombers." Actually, we already DID that, and that's why Utah is a state today instead of it's own little polygamist country. It's also why the Mormon church "abandoned" polygamy. en.wikipedia.org "Disputes between the Mormon inhabitants and the US Government intensified due to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' practice of plural marriage among its members. The Mormons were pushing for the establishment of the State of Deseret. The U.S. Government, which was reluctant to admit a state the size of the proposed Deseret into the union, opposed the polygamous practices of the Mormons. After news of their polygamous practices spread, the members of the LDS Church were quickly viewed as un-American and rebellious. In 1857, after news of a false rebellion spread, the government sent troops on the "Utah expedition" to quell the supposed rebellion and to replace Brigham Young as territorial governor with Alfred Cumming. The resulting conflict is known as the Utah War. As troops approached Salt Lake in northern Utah, nervous Mormon settlers and Paiutes attacked and killed 120 immigrants from Arkansas in southern Utah. The attack became known as the Mountain Meadows Massacre. The massacre became a point of contention between LDS leaders and the federal government for decades. Only one man, John D. Lee, was ever convicted of the murders, and he was executed at the massacre site. Before troops led by Albert Sidney Johnston entered the territory, Brigham Young ordered all residents of Salt Lake City to evacuate southward to Utah Valley and sent out a force, known as the Nauvoo Legion, to delay the government's advance. Although wagons and supplies were burned, eventually the troops arrived, and Young surrendered official control to Cumming, although most subsequent commentators claim that Young retained true power in the territory. A steady stream of governors appointed by the president quit the position, often citing the unresponsiveness of their supposed territorial government. By agreement with Young, Johnston established Fort Floyd 40 miles away from Salt Lake City, to the southwest. Salt Lake City was the last link of the transcontinental telegraph, completed in October of 1861. Brigham Young was among the first to send a message, along with Abraham Lincoln and other officials. Because of the American Civil War, federal troops were pulled out of Utah Territory, leaving the territory in LDS hands until Patrick E. Connor arrived with a regiment of California volunteers in 1862. Connor established Fort Douglas just three miles (5 km) east of Salt Lake City and encouraged his men to discover mineral deposits to bring more non-Mormons into the state. Minerals were discovered in Tooele County, and miners began to flock to the territory. Beginning in 1865, Utah's Black Hawk War developed into the deadliest conflict in the territory's history. Chief Antonga Black Hawk died in 1870, but fights continued to break out until additional federal troops were sent in to suppress the Ghost Dance of 1872. The war is unique among Indian Wars because it was a three-way conflict, with mounted Timpanogos Utes led by Antonguer Black Hawk exploited by federal and LDS authorities. On May 10, 1869, the First Transcontinental Railroad was completed at Promontory Summit, north of the Great Salt Lake. The railroad brought increasing numbers of people into the state, and several influential businessmen made fortunes in the territory. During the 1870s and 1880s, laws were passed to punish polygamists, and in the 1890 Manifesto, the LDS Church banned polygamy. When Utah applied for statehood again, it was accepted. One of the conditions for granting Utah statehood was that a ban on polygamy be written into the state constitution. This was a condition required of other western states that were admitted into the Union later. Statehood was officially granted on January 4, 1896."

To: Elroy who wrote (200383)	8/31/2006 11:14:46 AM
From: neolib	Respond to of 281500

A "closer to reality" analogy would be if the Mormons tried to secede and make Utah a new MormonCountry. We wouldn't say "Adios, lets get a free trade treaty going!", we'd send in the national guard, army, Dick Cheney w/rifle, Hawkmoon and a few b-52 bombers. Actually, the Mormons kind of tried that once, and the USA ended up only hanging one of them, some number of years later I think. Read up on the Mountain Meadows Massacre. IIRC, this was the worst wipeout of western bound pioneers. The Mormons did have some Indian help, and tried to make it look like an Indian massacre of a wagon train, but there were enough survivors (kids mostly taken into Mormon familes) that the truth came out. Mormons, unlike Muslims, have adapted to external norms a number of times: 1) Polygamy, 2) MMM and aftermath which was essentially about territorial control, and 3) racial issues in the 1970-80's. There may be others I've missed.