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Politics : Actual left/right wing discussion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (48)	9/5/2006 7:56:32 PM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 10087

Good op ed piece today in the NYT re: Estonia. Praising flat tax as it spreads in eastern europe. More revenue, less cheating, far more simple, rationialization the tax system. Progressive system sounds good but in fact flat tax better and fairer. Rich folks can always beat high taxes you know but no one can beat the rat tax er er i mean flat tax. One commentator said that some of the same folks who support flat tax also lead the fight for single payer health care. Progressive yields the best mix from both conservative and liberal ideas. I like Teddy, not kennedy but roosevelt.

To: Wharf Rat who wrote (48)	9/5/2006 8:41:56 PM
From: Wharf Rat	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 10087

Can it be done? Depends on the effort. It starts with the feds; not only to set the tone, but because they are the largest landlord in the country. So they need to go green. If it is business as usual, or "let the market decide", it will take too long to get there, and Ford and GM will go broke fighting any standards ( Fuel economy/GHG emission standards, 2006...US 24 mpg; Cal 25 mpg; Canada 28 mpg; Aussie about 32 mpg; China 36 mpg; EU 44 mpg; Japan about 47 mpg. Who are we gonna sell cars to? Source... a graph from "Inconvenient Truth").If we develop a Manhattan Project/Apollo Project/WW2 Arsenal of Democracy mentality, we can do it. Sometimes I'm what the PO crowd call a Pollyanna; I still have hope we can pull it out, and even maintain an automobile lifestyle. Sometimes, I'm a doomer; we are all fucked. (Or y'all are; I'm rated as a cannibal survivor:>) Can it be done in 10 or 15 years? Sometimes I think so... 10 silver BBs...replaces 100% of electricity, 50 % of transportation fuels in 15 years. If I have added their numbers correctly, cuts all GHG and 13 mil BPD of oil... popsci.com That article doesn't even address rail. It is something like 24 times less energy intensive to move goods by electrified rail than by long haul trucks... A 10% Reduction in America's Oil Use in Ten to Twelve Years An Overlooked, Practical, and Affordable Approach Using Mature Existing Technology Commentary by Alan S. Drake Message 22500510 =========== It can happen astonishingly fast... U.S. Wind Power Approaches 10-Gigawatt Milestone August 14, 2006 Message 22717309 China's Wind Power THE WORLD'S MOST POPULOUS COUNTRY HARNESSES WIND TO HELP POWER A BURGEONING ECONOMY Message 22635996 ========== China set to invest $200bn in renewable energy sector Message 22636003 ================ We can even cut our GHG emissions if we try... It can be done; a bunch of dopers are doing it... Dutch greenhouse gas emissions fell 2 percent in 2005, now at 1990 levels, agency says The Associated Press Message 22781105 How hard is it? We can produce all the electricity we need using 1/4 of the roofs in the country. We can switch the motor fleet to PHEV; plug in hybrids. We can't run all our cars off of corn alcohol and feed the world. We may not even be able run our current fleet and feed America, so we need to get off of corn EtOH. That's just a pay-off to ADM and Monsanto. Maybe cellulosic. Maybe hemp, switchgrass, miscanthus, algae. Maybe something like this.. Message 22576676 What else? Lots of things. Run of river hydro; generators on bridge pilings. SF is talking about putting them on the Golden Gate Bridge. Close loops by getting fuel from animal waste. I know somebody making all his own biodiesel out of waste cooking oil; runs his truck, tractor, 4 wheeler, and generator; and I consider him to be a total loser :>) Thank God hydrogen is currently dead. Green buildings? It's a good thing, but it will take a lot longer to change all our buildings than it will be to replace our automobile fleet. But, if all building codes began to require green,...here's something about one of my hospitals... March 9, 2005 California's first green' hospital? Eco-friendly planning underway for new Frank R. Howard Memorial By Claudia Reed/Staff Writer If all goes as planned, the relocated Frank R. Howard Memorial Hospital may be the first eco-friendly medical care center in the state. Experts in alternate energy systems and energy conservation are meeting today and tomorrow with those financing and designing the new hospital building. Plans call for construction of a 75,000-square-foot medical center on a 33-acre, creekside parcel on East Hill Road donated by the Harrah Marital Trust. New concepts, however, are being offered by WEL's food and health workshops, including an interface with practitioners of alternate medicine, on-site organic gardens to help provide food for the hospital, and a surrounding trails and exercise course to improve the health of patients, medical staff, and neighbors. cloudforest.org But none of this will happen without the feds. Ask me again in 1/09.