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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (201654)	9/6/2006 10:00:01 PM
From: Keith Feral	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

"Beware the leaven of the Pharisees" was one of the most important instructions that Jesus passed along to his disciples. He specifically warned his apostles to avoid becoming more pious than the well studied Jewish scholars who made it their job to come up with ridiculous standards of fundamentalism. They wanted to show that their standards of law regarding their love of God was an ultimate example that other people must follow. Unfortunately, Christians did a lousy job protecting the message of loving tolerance and patience that Jesus passed along throughout the New Testament. However, the gnostic teachings of Christ are there for anyone to appreciate as they look at the true message of Jesus. No one is implying that Jesus thought they were all self righteous hypocrites, the message simply discourages Jews from going to ridiculous extremes. People forget their traditional interpretations are only human opinions. This sets the precedent for fundamentalists to prefer their love for the law of the lord vs. the Lord of the law. The message of the Lord was to avoid religious extremism. Naturally, Jesus understood that judgement is better left with God than dictated by ridiculous standards of piety. No one ever wins the game of "Who Loves God the Best". God doesn't cheer for the winners, he feels compassion for people that deserve his love. If we are going to win the hearts and minds of the Muslim people, we had start doing a lot more than talking about democracy. We need to win the religious battle by showing people like the President of Iran that the Christians and Jews of the world have an amazing expression of love for God. Maybe the West needs to open the debate on the theocratic values of the Christianity, Catholicism, and Judaism. Despite being a secular society based on capitalism and democracy, we DO embrace a tradition of religious leadership that has preserved peace and respect between Catholics, Christians, and Jews for the past 2000 years since Jesus. He created a new religious order dividing the Old Testament and the New Testament. I keep alluding to the potential reformation of the Muslim religion. We can only teach the Muslims the value of religious respect by embracing our own religious virtues.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (201654)	9/6/2006 10:01:11 PM
From: Sam	Respond to of 281500

This is clear difference and makes sense as Christians are very much of the belief that mankind cannot create "Heaven on Earth". Now that's not to say that some of the current fundamentalist Christians wouldn't like to turn the US into a Theocratic government, but there is not basis for this in the New Testament. Well, it is certainly true that most Christians aren't like that. But it is also certainly true that historically--and I'm going back to medieval times here, even up to the early modern period--Christians have been avid proselytizers, and have fought a number of wars both with Islam and with other Christians over doctrine, with each side of course claiming the "True Way of God." And as you point out, there are some today who want the US to become a Christian state, and claim that it was founded as such--which is patent nonsense but nevermind. None of that, however, in any way replies to Trudy Rubin's larger point (see below). By talking about something called "Islamo-Fascism", we blur important differences, and pretend that we are actually fighting a single war--and we aren't. It is a recipe for continuing disaster and failure. It is simply Republicans playing into American fears for electoral purposes. Pure and simple. It is simpleminded and repulsive. I won't say it is "unAmerican" because it has happened all to often, including at times by Democrats (e.g., the Daisy ad). But most of the rest of the world doesn't buy it. Especially of course Muslims, who are as aware of differences between sects as Christians here are between, say, Lutherans and Catholics and Baptists. Lumping all these groups under a single rubric creates the image of one worldwide and powerful jihadi movement rather disparate groups whose differences can be exploited. For example, Irtanians hate al Qaeda, which considers them to be infidels. And Arab Sunnis will never the follow the lead of Shiite Iranians, no matter the current cockiness of Tehrans leaders. By exaggerating the unity and destructive power of terrorist groups, we play into al Qaeda's hands, says James Fallows in the current Atlantic Monthly after conversatiosn with 60 of America's top terrorist experts. We bolster Osama bin Laden's ego and reputation (along with the inflated self-image of Ahmadinejad.) We also blur the strategies for countering such groups as Hezbollah, Hamas, al Qaeda, Pakistani's Lashkar-e-toiba or British Islamist cells. Such strategies differ by country and involve diplomacy and police work as much as military actions.