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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (201711)	9/7/2006 9:28:32 AM
From: Elroy	Respond to of 281500

TJ, you are too pessimistic. The war against Saddam and Sons is won. The war against Osama in Afghanistan is won. As a bonus, the war against the Taleban was won too. If the USA simply called it enough for now and left town for a bit of R&R, it could count as a victory. That might or might not result in civil insurrection, civil war and chaos in Iraq and Afghanistan. At some stage in the future, if Islamic Jihad starts getting annoying again in those areas, it would be no particular problem to announce the arrival of a fleet of USA military vehicles. Well said.

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (201711)	9/11/2006 6:02:19 AM
From: TobagoJack	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hello Maurice, <<The war against Saddam and Sons >> … Don't be silly. If that was the genuine war aim, it would have been a strategic error, and it could have been achieved by more direct and cost effective ways. Besides, if that was the genuine war aim, its achievement turned out to cause arguably more problems and at greater cost in innocent lives and precious resources. <<war against Osama in Afghanistan is won. As a bonus, the war against the Taleban was won too.>> … Don't be a simpleton. The winning must have happened quite recently, say within the last few moments. <<If the USA simply called it enough for now and left town for a bit of R&R, it could count as a victory ...>> … Don't be a silly simpleton spin-ster. Perpetual police action over trivial pursuits at demonstrably great cost for no strategic gain is not winning. It is known as 'being bogged down for nothing'. <<At some stage in the future, if Islamic Jihad starts getting annoying again...>> … Are you one of the many unique village people who believe that Saddam is an Islamic Jihad dude? In other words, do you know what you are talking about? <<...starts getting annoying again in those areas, it would be no particular problem to announce the arrival of a fleet of USA military vehicles>> … Hmmn, very interesting. That must be why Iran is terminating its so far still peaceful nuke program even as it is a whole lot of years more advanced than Iraq could ever have accomplished in nuke-wannabe. <<But even without taking a breather, it's far from a lost cause>> ... While no breather is correct, but is it closer to becoming a lost cause? <<The USA need only copy the good old British Empire ...>> … The British did well out of the deal, did they? <<What the British did was hand control to a local enthusiast for power and provide some money, military support, and trade in the background, plus public hangings of miscreants who did things like suttee.>> ... If so, just another Saddam, or House of Saud, leading to more trouble and more Osama. Can you be slightly more creative? <<It's a very good training ground for the USA ...>> … An odd approach to getting attrition-ed away ala Rome. <<… have demonstrated to Iran, Libya and China just how precisely cruise missiles and Predators can be. Those Spectres are daunting too. And a gang of USA soldiers running around with all their gear are disconcerting too …>> … oh yes, that may be why Iran is so obedient, and China openly warned Rummy that US intervention in Taiwan Strait will invite a Chinese nuclear response, while the best comeback the White House could do in response is unofficially invite an officially sanctioned lady mystic at a press conference attended by Bush and Hu. It would help our discussion if you actually can possibly be right about the facts. <<I wouldn't be volunteering my life to enforce what the USA is trying to enforce in Iraq>> … and that would be what? <<Osama seems … >> … appears to the untrained eye that the prime terrorist is retired, or dead, or missing, and in any case, his job appears done, and strategy looks self-propagating, on auto-pilot, simply because his opponents think as you do, and that is not at all. Chugs, J