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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: geode00 who wrote (202561)9/11/2006 1:19:26 PM
From: Doug R  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
I'll find you the statements. But there's more below.
Also, when you have time after reading about the seismic evidence, there are two or three things I think everyone should watch.

video.google.nl

video.google.com

video.google.com

The above details false flag operations...how they're used, how they're set up, their widespread use in the past and the present, people not even barely publicly known who were behind the scenes on 9/11 in the military who were involved, what evidence there is for it...declassified documents, whistleblowers, etc...and how to see flase-flag events coming>>>that's MOST important.

Now, onto the seismic evidence:
The times of the seismic spikes is well established and can be considered undeniable proof.
The spikes referenced occur before the planes' impacts.
Many people think the seismic activity during the collapse is all there is in this area of data.
911truth.org/Article911SeismicProof.html'>http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/Article911SeismicProof.html

On 9/11 the seismic stations grouped around New York City recorded seismic events from the WTC site, two of which occurred immediately prior to the aircraft impacts upon the Twin Towers. Because these seismic events preceded the collisions, it is clear they were not associated with the impacts and must therefore be associated with some other occurrence. None of the authorities charged with the responsibility for the investigation of the events of 9/11 have proposed a source for these seismic events, nor have they given a valid reason for the difference in times between the seismic events and the aircraft impacts. Only by consideration of the evidence of basement explosions before the aircraft impacts, as experienced by William Rodriquez and 36 others, can an explanation be found for the fact that the seismic stations recorded seismic events originating from the WTC sites prior to the aircraft impacts. It seems unlikely that Middle Eastern terrorists could have overcome the WTC security and managed this kind of high level technological coordination. The facts presented here, simple and few, raise the possibility of inside help and involvement in 9/11/01, both before and after the attack.

OVERVIEW
This paper is concerned only with the factual data surrounding the exact impact times of the two aircraft that hit WTC1 and WTC2. Everything else about 9/11 is outside the scope of this paper.

This is not a theory or hypothesis, but a statement of publicized facts regarding the timing of the aircraft impacts. There exist two separate precision data time sets that address when the aircraft crashed into the Towers. Both data time sets are based on UTC (Coordinated Universal Time, the world’s atomic clock system) and the sources that determined these times were prestigious, reliable and credible.

There is no question regarding the precision and accuracy of the instruments used to record both data time sets, since their entire function depends and relies upon temporal accuracy, and therefore there can be no doubt that both data time sets are correct. The time data sets represent objective scientific data recorded by two separate, independent entities.

The problem is the data sets have different impact times.

These times were given out years ago but at different times. Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia University (LDEO) gave its findings around the time of the actual event with what it thought were impact times based upon the seismic data recorded, while the 9/11 Commission published its impact times, based upon FAA radar data and air traffic control software logic, years later in its Final Report. The Commission no longer exists.

Here are the impact times for each source:
...............................AA Flt 11.....UA Flt 175
LDEO:.....................8:46:26.....9:02:54
9/11 Commission: 8:46:40.....9:03:11
Differentials: ..........14 secs.....17 secs

SEISMIC DATA AND TIMES
LDEO Published Findings

Link: 911_wtc.html'>http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/LCSN/Eq/20010911_wtc.html

(all times plus or minus 1 to 2 seconds)
911truth.org/Article911SeismicProof-image002.gif'>http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/Article911SeismicProof-image002.gif
LDEO confirmed its data as accurate:
911pentagon.pdf'>http://www.mgs.md.gov/esic/publications/download/911pentagon.pdf

9/11 COMMISSION DATA AND TIMES
Commission Timeline

Link: 911/index.html'>http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/index.html
The Commission’s times are based upon: "We have determined that the impact time was 9:03:11 based on our analysis of FAA radar data and air traffic control software logic." [9/11 Commission Report, pg 460, Note 130]:
911truth.org/Article911SeismicProof-image003.gif'>http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/Article911SeismicProof-image003.gif

911/corpus/report_470_460.html'>http://www.insightful.com/infact/911/corpus/report_470_460.html
(Note 130 is the basis for WTC1 & WTC2 precision impact times to the second)
911truth.org/Article911SeismicProof-image004.gif'>http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/Article911SeismicProof-image004.gif

It is known that the FAA followed the aircraft using four different radar tracking stations utilizing primary radar return with all times to the second. Radar is based upon microwaves that travel at the speed of light, and therefore an error variance (which is in microseconds) need not be stated.

The Commission Report has the impact times.

Their data set is based upon actual flight data that ended when the Towers were struck.

There is no question: AA Flight 11 died exactly at 8:46:40 and UA Flight 175 at 9:03:11 [UTC – 4 hrs].

Since the planes crashed at those times, the question is: What caused the LDEO times 14 and 17 seconds earlier? What caused those seismic spikes?

On the face, it seems tenuous that the spikes were "impact times". How does an aircraft impacting the WTC near the 90th floor result in energy transference that travels all the way down to the earth, even through the massive multi-level, 6-story sub-basement structure, and be picked up by LDEO as a seismic spike? Energy from the crash should have mostly been absorbed by the building’s immense structure and mass.

The following is an excerpt about an EYEWITNESS at WTC1 by the name of William Rodriguez (he worked at the WTC complex for 20 years, was acknowledged a hero for the many lives he saved that day, and he was the last person out of the building before it came down):

newswithviews.com

Arriving at 8:30 on the morning of 9-11 he went to the maintenance office located on the first sublevel, one of six sub-basements beneath ground level. There were a total of fourteen people in the office at that same time. As he was discussing the day’s tasks with others, there was a very loud massive explosion which seemed to emanate from between sub-basement B2 and B3. There were an additional twenty-two people on B2 sub-basement who also felt and heard that first explosion.

At first he thought it was a generator that had exploded. But the cement walls in the office cracked from the explosion. "When I heard the sound of the explosion, the floor beneath my feet vibrated, the walls started cracking and everything started shaking." said Rodriguez, who was crowded together with fourteen other people in the office including Anthony Saltamachia, his supervisor for the American Building Maintenance Company.

Just seconds later there was another explosion way above which made the building oscillate momentarily. This, he was later told, was a plane hitting the Tower at about the 90th floor. Upon hearing about the plane, he immediately thought of the people up in the restaurant. Then there were other explosions just above B1 and individuals started heading for the loading dock to escape the explosion’s resulting rampant fire. When asked later about those first explosions he said: "I would know if an explosion was from the bottom or the top of the building." He heard explosions both before and after the plane hit the Tower.

The number of witnesses who presented evidence of explosion and explosion damage, and particularly the injuries that some witnesses received, again leaves no room for doubt that there were explosions in the basement of WTC1. The following video link of the powerful testimony of William Rodriguez is evidence that corroborates the facts of this paper; and these facts corroborate these 37 EYEWITNESSes:

video.google.com

CONCLUSION

Several seismic stations recorded seismic signals originating from two events which occurred at the WTC site, immediately prior to both aircraft impacts. Because these signals preceded the impacts there can be no doubt that the seismic signals recorded were not those associated with the aircraft impacts on the Towers.

These signals were in fact the seismic spikes associated with the huge basement explosions reported by witnesses.

The inescapable conclusions drawn from this analysis and the facts contained therein, cast extreme doubt on the government's claim that these attacks were carried out solely by Middle Eastern terrorists, who would not have had the ability or opportunity to plant the explosive devices, nor to detonate them so as to be masked and partially hidden by the aircraft impacts. The real perpetrators, those who actually did plant these devices, clearly had free access to the Towers. The total number of people who had this opportunity was small and a list of these people should be easily available. Middle Eastern terrorists alone could not have been responsible as they do not have the wherewithal of this kind of scale. It is more than remarkable that the 9/11 Commission, although it heard the testimony of William Rodriguez regarding the explosions in the basements, did not deem it important enough to be included in the Final Report.

These facts of the conspiracy demand a new independent, quasi private/public, non-politicized 9/11 investigation (a real one this time, one with teeth) be formed immediately to pursue this crime investigation until the murderers / conspirators are identified, apprehended, and brought to justice. All Americans, especially the NYPD, the Attorney General for the State of New York, Congress, and the Bush Administration need to help in answering this question: Who is responsible for the explosions? No stone should be left unturned until these murderers are caught. If the government and the media do not respond to this, it is like an admission of guilt and/or continued coverup.

There must be justice for those who died that day, justice for their families and friends who grieve to this day, justice for all the victims who survived, and that those who did this heinous act receive the full measure of justice befitting their crime.



To: geode00 who wrote (202561)9/11/2006 1:46:41 PM
From: Doug R  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
From the NIST website:
"NIST’s findings do not support the 'pancake theory' of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers."

wtc.nist.gov