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Politics : Actual left/right wing discussion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: BW who wrote (712)	9/13/2006 10:02:25 AM
From: Ilaine	Respond to of 10087

Whether you like it or not, Israel is a "done deal", has been for decades. The Palestinians who used to live there left on their own two feet, and accepted financial compensation. Much of the land, of course, was purchased by Jews from their rightful owners long before the 1948 partition. Why should people who sold their land have any rights to it? If they weren't paid, they can apply for payment even now, if they can prove the facts. The problem that the ones who ran away after the partition face is that the payment is at 1950 levels, when they abandoned their property, and they refuse to accept that. It's like the Indians who sold Manhattan for $24, asking for trillions now. Doesn't work like that. Another problem is that some of them could return, the ones who originally lived there. But they want to bring with them, their children, their grandchildren, their greatgrandchildren, and all the spouses and inlaws, none of them born in Israel to begin with. No country in the world allows this type of immigration. Once you immigrate, your descendants (for the most part) lose the right to return. Some countries may voluntarily let your descendents come back, Ireland comes to mind, but they still have procedures you have to follow. Israel will let Jews come to Israel, from every place in the world, and they will take care of them and help them get jobs and find places to live. Why should they take in the great grandchildren of Arabs who ran away almost 60 years ago, if they don't want to? If you moved to, say, Costa Rica, would you expect your great-grandchildren to have any right of return?

To: BW who wrote (712)	9/13/2006 10:15:10 AM
From: TimF	Respond to of 10087

If people can reclaim the land they used to control than you have support for Israel. If there is no such right and you have to accept the status quo well than I guess that supports Israel's right to exist as well...

To: BW who wrote (712)	9/13/2006 10:43:57 AM
From: one_less	Respond to of 10087

Nuke the bunnies! There is no corner of the Earth that could not be disputed on the basis of ancient inhabitation, natural circumstance, possession and conflict. Modern claims to property by legitimate ownership rights come under either some right authorized by a formal civilization through grants and conflict treaties, or economic purchase. The fact that varying societal authorities continue to have disputes over rights to ownership is one of the primary motives that hold up warring operations between nations. The other primary motivating factor is expanding social influence and ideals. "...as in Native Americans..." Which Native Americans. The hundreds of tribes that were present when Europeans arrived represented distinct and separate societies that had been disputing rights to live hunt and inhabit every inch of American soil for centuries. We now find that the first 'Natural Parks' were not natural at all: and early attempts to return them to a natural state (one not corrupted by human influences) were utter failures primarily because their systems had already been irreparably altered (corrupted/polluted) by 'Native American' exploitation. So do we send Native Americans back across the bering straight and let the Bears and the bunnies fight it out. Oh wait, the bunnies came from Australia, let's nuke all bunnies. ... is that where we start?

To: BW who wrote (712)	9/13/2006 4:23:14 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Respond to of 10087

I think RCG answered this better than I can. Your land is yours as long as you can hold it. No longer. Those are the facts of life. Appeals to "rights", "International Law", whatever, are exercises in futility. Exactly WHO is to enforce "international law"? "God"? Lebanon had a UN resolution requiring it to disarm Hezbollah imposed years ago. Lot of good it did, didn't it? And he raises the issue of American Indians. There is not one square inch a tribe is on now, or was on when Columbus sailed to the New World, that had not previously belonged to some other "tribe" that were pushed off that land by its occupants at the time. The same is true all over the earth. Who holds right to any land if prior claims are valid?