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Politics : Actual left/right wing discussion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (909)	9/15/2006 10:21:01 AM
From: JeffA	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 10087

OK, this is exactly why a conversation like this is hard to have. Seems to me that, whether or not you forgive the sin in yourself, it's still a sin. So I don't see what forgiveness has to do with it. What I mean by "forgiveness" was how easy or forgiving you were towards your own behaviour. You cannot forgive your own sins. Let's say I swore at a driver or two or 30 this morning for various behaviours on the highway that I find inconsiderate, dangerous, or whatever. Now, I could be forgiving towards myself in that I could blame others for causing me to curse. However, I consider that a cop out. I did it, I own it, so I would not be that "forgiving" towards myself. Now, cursing is a sin, so, there's a whole bunch of'em right there in the car before I ever got really started in the day. Another person might be comfortable saying since their behaviour caused me to curse, it don't count. That's what I was trying to state. Of course, God didn't actually provide a list so we're left with the leadership of various religions to determine what God presumably determined was a sin. God provided a list. It's all through the Bible, your sin list is someone's summary of some of these entries.

To: Lane3 who wrote (909)	9/15/2006 10:23:30 AM
From: one_less	Respond to of 10087

Interesting list. Some of those are certainly bound only to a very specific Religion and it's code. Many could be viewed by the vast majority of people living under an 'ethical' moral code as universal. "Seems to me that, whether or not you forgive the sin in yourself, it's still a sin. So I don't see what forgiveness has to do with it." Locus of sin has a great deal to do with it. The famous personal struggle of Huck Finn in Mark Twain's novel illustrates the point beautifully. By the culture of the story, Huck was committing powerful evil by taking his friend up the river with him, but Huck simply couldn't come to terms with societies standard and betray his friend at the same time, so Huck opts to do a kindness for his friend in spite of the surety of the Hell, he knew would await him in the next life. He justifies it by figuring the happiest place for him would be Hell anyway since ole Tom Sawyer would be there to meet him. So in essence, the little boy of the story was able to define a path to heaven that superceded society's doctrine. The residence of sin and evil lie at the depths of one's soul. Doctrine and religious authority is either a match or it is not. If you have a cross word with your mother or another loved one it will make an uncomfortable place of residence at that location until or unless you find a way to resolve the problem (forgive yourself) on a personal level. Societies (external locus) terms of forgiveness are far different than your personal terms. In society we can find a heinous criminal guilty and put him out on the street in 4 to 7 years. He has paid his debt to society and so he is doctrinally forgiven. The victim's forgiveness is an entirely other matter as is the perp's ability to move on and be completely at peace with his past conduct.