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Politics : Actual left/right wing discussion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: one_less who wrote (1101)	9/16/2006 5:59:42 PM
From: Jim S	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 10087

Good, rational post, Gem. Where I stumble isn't over the Muslims living in North America, but rather those living in more rabid (if you don't mind me using the word) countries in the Middle East, where any sort of gravitation towards Western values and mores' is punished, or at least strongly discouraged by the societies. So long as the societies AND the governments there support the old, original beliefs and ways of thinking, what can be done? "Kill 'em all" ain't much of a solution, and so far, we aren't having much luck with the "treat 'em with kindness" approach, either.

To: one_less who wrote (1101)	9/17/2006 8:52:12 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 10087

There are tons of common sense descriptions of how muslims can live according to their religion in moderate and decent ways, coexisting in diverse communities. I don't question that, but I don't see how it produces a reformation of Islam in the ME. It's all well and good to have a model but if there isn't a critical mass in a strategic place...

To: one_less who wrote (1101)	9/17/2006 12:37:49 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 10087

First, Zeno's Paradox. Mathematically, limit theory handles it. It can be shown that 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + ..... = 1 8 or ? (1/2)^n -> 1 n=1 So the paradox disappears. (For those who know this stuff, yeah, I know, the notation is a little off on the first one.) There are upwards of 7 million plus Muslims living in the USA, spread across nearly every community, people who vote and believe in democracy. There are tons of common sense descriptions of how muslims can live according to their religion in moderate and decent ways, coexisting in diverse communities. I could offer you a scholarly treatment that supports democracy in Islam. We could discuss the various Islamic geopolitical regions that might oppose such social movement ... My understanding is that the Muslims living here are not typical. They are actually better educated and earn more than the average American. To a large extent, they are spread throughout communities, rather than gathered in tight groups. This would agree with what I have seen of them. In Europe, in spite of its liberalism, this is not true. They are poorer, more poorly educated, and gathered into ghettoes centered on mosques. A recipe for disaster- -as the Spanish, French, and British have found out. The US has actually done better by them than Europe has and they have much less to complain about.