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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Doug R who wrote (203231)	9/17/2006 5:55:45 AM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Doug R; Re: "The video and photographic evidence as well as eywitnesses all trend toward maybe 5% of the concrete was larger chunks." These aren't numbers. It would be better if you had, for example, a figure from the landfill that gave how many tons of dust arrive, how many tons of metal, etc. Re: "The dust was inches deep throughout a widespread area." In order to turn this into a number, you need to give the following information: (a) How much of an area. (b) How many inches. (c) What was the density of the dust. I looked for figures on these things and couldn't find much. For example: "The collapse of the towers generated thousands of tons of particulate matter comprised of cement dust, glass fibers, asbestos, lead, aromatic hydrocarbons, and organochlorine compounds, many of which significantly increased the subjects' susceptibility to bronchial spasms and asthma," said Landrigan. "These respiratory effects were most pronounced in subjects who were in or around the WTC buildings during the first 12 hours of the disaster." nih.gov or epa.gov I did find a guy who simulated the air currents caused by the falling building. For the "particles" he used three sizes, 10cm, 1cm and .01cm, and he says that his simulation gave the distribution of debris fairly well: ams.confex.com But unless you're claiming that ALL the dust from the WTC blew into the neighborhood, I don't see why we should bother. It's obvious that most of the debris, dust or concrete chunks, ended up in the hole and that only fairly light weight stuff got blown more than a few hundred feet from the place. Your guy says that there was 600,000 tons of concrete dust per tower (which is way off). At a density of around 2, that would be enough to cover a full square mile 8" deep. And that doesn't count the dust from wall board, windows, insulation, etc. Now 60 microns is pretty small dust. A particle of that size, starting from 600 feet in the air, takes about 10 minutes to fall to earth. Given the winds that were present at the time, and the winds created by the tower fall itself, those particles would have been blown all over New York to a depth to a much greater depth (i.e. maybe 10x or 20x greater) than was actually seen. Instead, 90% of the concrete (or dust or whatever) ended up in the hole, just where you'd think it would be if it was created in the hole, by crushing forces when all that weight hit it. And just as you'd expect, the hole also had huge chunks of unpulverized concrete as the photos I've included show. Meanwhile, I see that you are avoiding comment on my demonstration that the lightweight concrete used in the WTC was lightweight because it was filled with air and therefore much easier to crush than solid rock. Re: "Massive clouds of dust made it out over the river as well. Find me ONE...just ONE photograph of large chunks of concrete." The concrete chunks are very obvious and I've already pointed them out to you. You don't recognize them as concrete chunks because, like everything else near ground zero, they have a layer of dust on them. Blocks of concrete are innocuous and there is little reason to take photographs of them, but if you look in the background of this picture, you'll see concrete chunks: epa.gov Try Time magazine's issue: time.com This photo shows normal weight concrete almost undamaged from the parking garage at the WTC. This was not turned into dust at all: southflorida.com Look on page 10 of this link, the blue suited guy is surrounded by chunks of concrete and rebar: epa.gov Part of the concrete used in the WTC was for the "bathtub" that surrounded it. You can see that the bathtub was not turned into dust in this picture: southflorida.com More underground conrete: southflorida.com southflorida.com There are concrete chunks in some of the foreground pictures here: 911research.wtc7.net -- Carl P.S. Also see: Eighteen and 22-wheel trucks hauling as much as 30 tons of steel or concrete are power washed to remove dust and debris. epa.gov