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Strategies & Market Trends : The Epic American Credit and Bond Bubble Laboratory -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: bond_bubble who wrote (69890)9/17/2006 11:43:42 PM
From: mishedlo  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 110194
 
Mish, You are only looking at spot prices and jumping to conclusion. When the spot prices ($CRB) was higher, the prices did not rise immediately. Why? Because, manufacturers have futures contract similar to Option ARMs. When the futures contract expire (similar to optionArm expiration), rates kick in higher and at that time you will see the price increases!! Just like OptionArm borrowers EXPECT higher interest rate payment AFTER the expiration of the option period, manufacturers do too. Eventhough SPOT interest rates (10 year yield) are falling (like $CRB is falling), that does NOT mean OptionArm resets will be at lower price. The simple reason is that, even though 10 year yield is falling, it is still way higher than the 2004 low!! Similarly, eventhough CRB is falling, it is still higher than 2005 prices and if the manufacturers have to rollover the contracts, it will have to be at higher prices!!! If you are not inclined to give high weightage to the OptionArm - $CRB similarity, go and look at your early 2005 post on steel prices. At that time, steel prices were temporarily falling and you were predicting steel will fall like crazy in future as well. Unfortunately, it still continues to rise!! I also understand, you are not expecting the home owners to pay less interest inspite of 10 year yield fall.

To assume everyone hedges 1 year out is a bad assumption. Are builders hedging lumber prices? For a year or for 3 months? Very few airlines hedged fuel prices. My understanding is that only one did. (I forget which one). As of now, anyone that hedged oil prices at $80 is in trouble (competitivewise) if oil prices fall to 60-65 and stay there.

Will they be able to raise their prices if that happens? Fat chance.

You liken that to pay option arms. It is similar but one is a consumer issue the other is a producer issue. Consumers have to pay that mortgage, builders can produce less widgets or take a lower profit margin on them. I am in an interest only Libor loan myself. I am also under no pressure. My house is 75% paid off and money is in the bank that could pay off half of the rest. For those in my boat (very few admittedly) every 1/4 point drop (if any come and I think they will) will immediately be beneficial to me. This is not like someone in a pay option arm tied to the 10yr that ahs not reset yet. I understand what you are saying though and on that score you are correct but that repricing higher adds to DEFLATIONARY pressures (rising bankruptcies and foreclosures). People like me are a hugely small percentage.

Yes I understand peak oil and the like. But I am not unconvinced that speculation has not added $20 or more to the price of oil. We can see a move to $50. No not forever but long enough to matter.

There are just too many differences to expect an exact repeat of 1929-1933 but I have no doubt that a credit crunch is coming. I just keep wondering .... when will the market see it? After every last dollar is sucked in by companies buying back shares at absurd prices?

Mish