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To: Lane3 who wrote (179643)	9/19/2006 8:12:12 AM
From: Murrey Walker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793964

I think that the Pope should condemn terrorism and the tolerance of terrorism periodically, whenever a suitable opportunity presents itself, so that he is clearly on the record that terrorism is unacceptable in a civilized world and surely unacceptable to God. You parsed the proper words together Karen, and get a hand clapping "A+" for your answer to Elisabeth. As has been said, WRT planning for war, the first thing to go wrong in war is the plan itself. The Pope's handlers probably has a "model" for this Pope. Things have not gone according to Hoyle (apologies put forth to Sir Fred), so now what are you going to do? And I think he should handle references to Islam carefully, refraining from clumsy statements or interventions that agitate without prospect of a beneficial return. I doubt he had incitement on his mind when he gave the initial speech. And surely he didn't expect this "youth driven" (with the implicit approval of the clerics) response. The time is approaching for us to quit handling the loonies with kid leather gloves, Karen.

To: Lane3 who wrote (179643)	9/19/2006 5:20:38 PM
From: zeta1961	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793964

Hi, Lane..thanks for your response..it appears much dialogue was generated which is wonderful,imo.. I think your thoughts/suggestions are excellent but even before 9/11, the interfaith cooperation movement[sanctioned by the pope's office] was bringing folk together..the modern papacy has had its doors open to dialogue talk up the notion of reform, referencing the reform that has taken place in other religions, including his, and stressing the value of such reformations across the board and his appreciation of how difficult and time-consuming they are. Moderates(those who would be motivated to meet with the Pope know quite well that violence is unacceptable, they know the history of Christianity too..Those who commit terrorism and support it(financially)have the primary goal of being the dominant religion/government in the world..reform has absolutely no value for them PS..during the 90s when adolescent violence was reaching aweful levels, many violence prevention programs sprouted across the country(http://peacegames.org) and coalition groups of social scientists, pediatricians, nurses and health policy folk, began getting together..after about a year, one of the scientists cited a study that of all the interventions to stem street violence in the US, presence of law enforcement was the most quick and effective(even long term)..much to the shock of those of us racking our brains to figure out all the nuances of this problem adn how to fix it...I don't have a link(this was pre-internet). I'll try digging it up..of course, it didn't mean that violence prevention curricula and other 'soft glove' interventions were meaningless, they would take longer than we ever imagined[that is if they worked].. Lastly, one of the things that is different from the West and Islam is the West, in general whether guided by religion or not, strives to forgive even the most horrendous offences..that is not the case in Islam..they pass on past infractions and vengeance from generation to generation(not just in the huge things, but also familial stuff).. From what I can tell, we will not see a solution until the state governments and moderates feel the max pain..I have no idea what will get them there.. I also agree with Carranza and Entuerpe..the Pope's message was most probably directed to the moderates.. Indeed this is most vexing... Re the problem of hunger among American children,I was under the impression that it had been all but solved and the greater problem was now childhood obesity. frac.org This is not a conversation that I want to take up here..