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Technology Stocks : The Electric Car, or MPG "what me worry?" -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Tadsamillionaire who wrote (60)	9/26/2006 3:06:49 PM
From: sageyrain	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 17499

If this is for real, it could change everything. As I first read it, I thought it was a spoof from "The Onion" or something similar: "Feel Good Cars", the "Zenn", but as the author points out, kleiner, Perkins, Caufield and Byers are backing them. I bet they had their experts look at the technology before investing. sustainablog.blogspot.com Thanks to celebrity activist Tod Brilliant for passing along this news: Texas "stealth company" EEStor has patented a new ceramic electrical storage device (which we can't call a battery because it has no chemicals) that can power a car for 500 miles on a $9 charge of electricity. Even more exciting is their claim that fully charging the system will take all of five minutes. And even more exciting: we're not talking about cars that drive like golf carts. According to Business 2.0: "A four-passenger sedan will drive like a Ferrari," [Toronto-based Feel Good Cars CEO] Clifford predicts. In contrast, first electric car, the Zenn, which debuted in August and is powered by a more conventional battery, can't go much faster than a moped and takes hours to charge. (note: Feel Good Cars plans to incorporate the EEStor into cars by 2008) The cost of the engine itself depends on how much energy it can store; an EEStor-powered engine with a range roughly equivalent to that of a gasoline-powered car would cost about $5,200. That's a slight premium over the cost of the gas engine and the other parts the device would replace -- the gas tank, exhaust system, and drivetrain. But getting rid of the need to buy gas should more than make up for the extra cost of an EEStor-powered car. EEStor is tight-lipped about its device and how it manages to pack such a punch. According to a patent issued in April, the device is made of a ceramic powder coated with aluminum oxide and glass. A bank of these ceramic batteries could be used at "electrical energy stations" where people on the road could charge up. EEStor is backed by VC firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, and the company's founders are engineers Richard Weir and Carl Nelson. CEO Weir, a former IBM-er, won't comment, but his son, Tom, an EEStor VP, acknowledges, "That is pretty much why we are here today, to compete with the internal combustion engine." He also hints that his engine technology is not just for the small passenger vehicles that Clifford is aiming at, but could easily replace the 300-horsepower brutes in today's SUVs. Not being an engineer, I have no idea how this might work. But I'm very impressed to see Kleiner Perkins on board, and, obviously, very intrigued by the concept. If this turns out to be the real deal, it's hard to imagine how the internal combustion engine, or even gas-electric hybrids, could survive the competition, as the EEStor claims to have all of the qualities potential buyers would want: price, power and efficiency. At the same time, I remember the old saying about "If it seems too good to be true...." Others that are much more knowledgeable about such things, such as J.C. Winnie, Mike Milliken, and TH compadre John Laumer, seem cautiously optimistic...

To: Tadsamillionaire who wrote (60)	9/27/2006 6:12:36 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Respond to of 17499

The problem is NOT the complexity of the motors. It has been known since internal combustion engines were invented (electric motors were invented first) that electric motors were simpler. You can see how much difference that made- -internal combustion engines drove electrics right off the road (yes, there WERE electric cars early in the history of the automobile) because of their greater power, speed, and range. It is now generally accepted that cars should have about a 300 mile range on a charge/fill up and should be capable of at least 70 mph. The problem is simply cost and energy density. A 10-20 gallon tank of gas is fairly small; a battery containing equivalent energy is much larger. 10 gallons of gas contains 1.310^9 joules of energy. phy.syr.edu A car lead-acid battery has about 4.3 megajoules of energy, or 4.310^6 joules. Thus it would take 300 batteries to equal a mere 10 gallons of gasoline. Such a battery would weigh at least 40 lbs., thus the total would be at least 12,000 pounds. Quite a weight for an equivalent to a compact car. A lithium-ion battery is about 3 times better. It can store 460,000 joules/kg, requiring 6200 pounds of battery- -not really a gain. allaboutbatteries.com In spite of the simpler construction of an electric motor, there is still the problem of powering it and without some serious advances in battery technology, they simply aren't practical.