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Politics : Actual left/right wing discussion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Keith Feral who wrote (2520)	10/10/2006 1:30:37 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 10087

I don't think there is any question the aclu supports anti religious tolerance more than it encourages religious respect. OK, I get it. You have this jones about the ACLU. I won't argue that things with them haven't gotten a bit weird, but surely you understand that they didn't start out being anti-anything. They started out protecting the rights of the "other," who has been sorely dissed historically by those in power. The hostility you see wasn't original to the ACLU. It derives from the refusal of the empowered to be respectful to the other. Had the powerful simply learned the lesson that it's not nice, for example, to stuff their Bible down the throats of schoolkids from other traditions and shown a little respect rather than acting like victims, themselves, things would never had gotten to the point about which you complain. If we are willing to remove God and spiritualism from schools, then should we remove all philosophy? No one wants to remove God from schools. They only want it presented as philosophy or sociology or geography or some such subject matter, not preached. But "remove God from schools" is much too effective in cranking up the mob. Hyperbole and fear-mongering sell. Apparently you have bought it hook, line, and sinker. I hardly think that religion is a requirement for free will and obedience. You never explained this odd juxtaposition of free will and obedience. It gets even stranger with repetition. We shouldn't be making blasphemous religious comments about a person's religious beliefs anymore than we should be making sexist remarks about women at work. There should be some legal protection against slandering peoples' beliefs just like we protect their sex and race. It's time we started calling out this no class behavior. People in the workplace are protected against religious persecution just as they are protected from sexual persecution. You may be unaware of that because it doesn't happen that often or it isn't as titilating but it's the case. Outside the workplace it's a different matter. We have free speech in this country. Not all countries have that. Like most practices, it has plusses and minuses. One of the advantages of it is that there's a convenient brite line. You can say whatever you like as long as you don't call for violence or endanger public safety. If we back off from that, then we get, at best, a fuzzy, meandering line. Blasphemy becomes like pornography--I know it when I see it. Messy, messy, best avoided. Free speech is one of those things where you have to accept that a few hiccups will occur but that, on balance, we're better off with it. Most people are smart enough to recognize that we're better off with free speech, albeit despite the annoyances, than with Torquemadaville. Which is not to say that people should go around shouting religious insults any more than women should dress like whores in the workplace. But I'll defend their right to do either, while utterly disapproving of their judgment.

To: Keith Feral who wrote (2520)	10/10/2006 6:20:04 PM
From: TimF	Respond to of 10087

"Personally, I think it's is an utter contradiction of free speech that the only message getting through to our kids is passed through the aclu approved list." but than later "We shouldn't be making blasphemous religious comments about a person's religious beliefs anymore than we should be making sexist remarks about women at work. There should be some legal protection against slandering peoples' beliefs just like we protect their sex and race." ?? So which is it, free speech or approved lists of topics? Do you object to anyone having the approval authority, or just the ACLU?