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Politics : Actual left/right wing discussion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TimF who wrote (3042)	10/17/2006 8:04:47 PM
From: GPS Info	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 10087

Tim, I’d like to push you further along these lines, if you will allow: Song is certainly not the only method, you might use words, or tattoos, or other things, but song could have been effective, and thus been a survival benefit. Would it be possible to explicate an idea whereby traits that enhance tribal cohesion could become inherited over time? Music is one such area, but what would be the broader characteristics of these traits? How big of an advantage is required to start the process? I have read that once women lived long enough to help raise their own grandchildren, this gave early “man” a 1% or 2% survival advantage over other hominids (Neanderthals). This was supposedly the inflection point that allowed a much more rapid population increase and hence, accelerated the decline of other hominids. The point is that a tiny advantage accumulates over thousands of years. From an evolutionary standpoint, the beak features of different bird species came from specialized feeding habits. How fast do these differences occur? How fast can punctuated equilibrium work? My thesis is that we have both genetic traits and cultural commonalities where they provide direct survival benefits or improve the probability of survival via group cohesion. These accumulate over thousands of years and affect both our genetics and culture, but of course, at much different rates. I feel that music fits well in this view. As means to invite a discussion, I would posit that cooperation during hunting is critical for group survival. Dissent, in any form, needs to be minimized or eliminated because it lowers the chance of a successful hunt. When we feel rushed, we are much less likely to tolerate dissent, as we would during a hunt; at rest, we are more open to debate. This feature also applies in combat situations for obvious reasons. This next point is a crude generality to seed the discussion: On the FADG board, it posted that modern men will shop like we previously hunted, and women will shop like they previously ‘gathered.’ Men are focused on one specific task, and return home soon after completing the task; whereas women will search (scour) an area for resources and return to a site when needed. These “tendencies” still serve humans in hunter/gatherer societies and remain encoded in all of us. Any thoughts?

To: TimF who wrote (3042)	10/18/2006 5:15:30 PM
From: Brumar89	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 10087

+But in the beginning when the first guy or gal with musical appreciation and talent appear, it would do them no good as their fellows don't care. You don't need most of society enjoying music, only a subset,.. But presumably random mutations occur with just one person (the odds of several identical random mutations occuring in the same small group of individuals would be prohibitively high). So the first guy or gal with a mutation for musical appreciation and talent wouldn't have even a subset of his society with the same trait. Not being able to explain something naturally is not evidence that it is supernatural. Or is not. That strikes me as a straw man. Who hear is arguing that music is evidence against supernatural explanations? Certainly not me, I've directly said otherwise, in posts to you. I know - you have said otherwise in other posts. Here, I'll change the wording for you - Not being able to explain something naturally is not evidence that it is supernatural. Or is not - as you've allowed in other posts.