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Politics : View from the Center and Left -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dale Baker who wrote (30458)	10/26/2006 5:14:58 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 541851

There's always Bush's "God talk": "The course of this conflict is not known, yet its outcome is certain. Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them." "Americans are a free people, who know that freedom is the right of every person and the future of every nation. The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity." "I believe, firmly believe -- and you've heard me say this a lot, and I say it a lot because I truly believe it -- that freedom is the Almighty God's gift to every person, every man and woman who lives in this world. That's what I believe. And the arrest of Saddam Hussein changed the equation in Iraq. Justice was being delivered to a man who defied that gift from the Almighty to the people of Iraq." mediatransparency.org Bush is not only turning the juggernaut of the US military on a dime because of what he sees as God ordained policies, he sees the whole international conflict playing out that way. I can't figure out how he squares the hubris of guessing the mind of God, with his religion- which clearly tells us humans cannot know the will of God. Saddam could very easily have been an instrument of God- there's really no way for a human (according to the Christian Bible) to know he was not.

To: Dale Baker who wrote (30458)	10/26/2006 5:29:48 PM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 541851

This is for both you and Tim. First, my original post was half tongue in cheek. Yet I believe it had more truth to it than not. As to Saudi, it is not a theocracy. The king, the royal family, and by far most of the government and breucracy do not have religious standing (in contrast to say Iran). Saudi Arabia is simply a very conservative ME society (even by ME standards) in which the government has chosen to cooperate with the religious right in order to have a wider support base than otherwise it could garner. Now the Bush administration has done a very similar thing. It is true that in terms of concrete actions they have not supported the religious right as much the Saudi government does. But it is also true that they have lent as much support to the religious right as they possibly could under the US law. As a result, I find it reasonable to assume that if those laws were non-existent and the religious right could provide the admin with substantial popular base, then they would have gone further...this is not unlike the arrangement between the Saudi royal family and the Wahhabies. Incidentally, Bush uses God and religious code words quite often. How do you think the RR would feel if instead of "God" he would have called upon "Allah" or frequently quoted Qoran?

To: Dale Baker who wrote (30458)	10/26/2006 5:38:28 PM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 541851

President George W Bush told Palestinian ministers that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq - and create a Palestinian State, a new BBC series reveals... bbc.co.uk ==================== President Bush delivered his second inaugural address Thursday after being sworn in for a second term. This is a transcript of his remarks, with annotations by Beliefnet senior editor Deborah Caldwell, who examines the speech's "God-talk." Vice President Cheney, Mr. Chief Justice, President Carter, President Bush, President Clinton, members of the United States Congress, reverend clergy, distinguished guests, fellow citizens: On this day, prescribed by law and marked by ceremony, we celebrate the durable wisdom of our Constitution and recall the deep commitments that unite our country. I am grateful for the honor of this hour, mindful of the consequential times in which we live and determined to fulfill the oath that I have sworn and you have witnessed. At this second gathering, our duties are defined not by the words I use, but by the history we have seen together. For a half-century, America defended our own freedom by standing watch on distant borders. After the shipwreck of communism came years of relative quiet, years of repose, years of sabbatical-and then there came a day of fire. [This phrase contains three religious allusions. The first is reminiscent of Hebrew Bible language, which refers throughout to Judgment Day as a day of fire; the second allusion is to the New Testament Book of Revelation, which also refers to Judgment Day as a day of fire; the third reference is to the story of Pentecost, found in the New Testament Book of Acts, in which the Holy Spirit descends to earth as wind and fire. In addition, "Day of Fire" is the name of an up-and-coming Christian rock band.] We have seen our vulnerability, and we have seen its deepest source. For as long as whole regions of the world simmer in resentment and tyranny-prone to ideologies that feed hatred and excuse murder-violence will gather, and multiply in destructive power, and cross the most defended borders and raise a mortal threat. There is only one force of history that can break the reign of hatred and resentment and expose the pretensions of tyrants and reward the hopes of the decent and tolerant. And that is the force of human freedom. We are led, by events and common sense, to one conclusion: The survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands. The best hope for peace in our world is the expansion of freedom in all the world. America's vital interests and our deepest beliefs are now one. From the day of our founding, we have proclaimed that every man and woman on this Earth has rights, and dignity and matchless value because they bear the image of the maker of heaven and Earth. [Elegant phrasing that resonates with Christians, Jews, and Muslims.] Across the generations, we have proclaimed the imperative of self-government, because no one is fit to be a master, and no one deserves to be a slave. [This is a reference to the Apostle Paul, writing in Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus.] Advancing these ideals is the mission that created our nation. It is the honorable achievement of our fathers. Now it is the urgent requirement of our nation's security and the calling of our time... beliefnet.com