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Politics : Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Cogito who wrote (52690)	11/1/2006 6:43:16 PM
From: longnshort	Respond to of 90947

"In the case of the botched joke," oh BS, Kerri has attacked the military since 1970, his intent was clear. It was no joke. stop your lying spin

To: Cogito who wrote (52690)	11/1/2006 7:04:10 PM
From: Bill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

In this case, the only part of the joke that's missing is "... like George Bush." Actually, that's the assertion that makes the least sense to those who take the time to understand what Kerry actually said. Kerry said, "You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.” [now add "...like George Bush".] Does adding that clause make Kerry's statement any more lucid? Let's take a look at the underlying facts. 1. Bush has an undergraduate degree from Yale (with better grades than Kerry's). 2. Bush has a master degree from Harvard. 3. Bush has done "well" in his career. (After all, he has the job Kerry wants.) Does anyone seriously think Kerry was referring to Bush when he said if you don't get a good education, you'll be stuck in Iraq?

To: Cogito who wrote (52690)	11/1/2006 8:51:12 PM
From: TimF	Respond to of 90947

Allen's repeated use of the word Macaca, and his comment "Welcome to America", left no room for doubt about his intentions. Repeated use? Even if it was repeated I don't see how that would leave no room for doubt. And I'm talking "reasonable doubt", not "absence of metaphysical certainty". I'm not so sure there is more room for doubt about Kerry's words and intentions than Allen's. It could even be argued there is less. But granting Kerry some benefit of the doubt that does exist - If he didn't mean to besmirch the troops he should directly apologize for accidentally doing so, not for how other people interpreted his words. Most of you seem to think that Kerry always acts in his own self interest. I don't think anyone always acts in their own self interest, or even in what they consider to be their own self interest. Many acts and statements occur without any calculation of self interest. The fact that the statement would not be in his self interest is something of an argument in favor of "he didn't really mean it that way" but a very weak one. Also see the bolded comment above.

To: Cogito who wrote (52690)	11/1/2006 10:33:57 PM
From: Alan Smithee	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

In the case of the botched joke, clearly there is room for doubt. Allen, What was the joke? Maybe I don't have a sense of humor, but I just didn't see a joke there. Not the set-up, no the joke itself, not the follow-through. What was Kerry's joke? /s/ Alan

To: Cogito who wrote (52690)	11/2/2006 5:50:21 AM
From: Sully-	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

I see others have adequately debunked the canards you raised, so I'll go easy on you.. << "Allen's repeated use of the word Macaca...." >> Please document the "repeated" usage. I'm only aware of it being mentioned in one event. The Washington Post is now over 160 articles covering the story, most of it front page above the fold - all negative & so overtly biased it is an obvious smear job. Can you name one similar instance where, in the heat of an election campaign, the WAPO or any other major MSM outlet went screaming yellow zonkers over something a well known Dem politician said that turned out to be a trivial matter, yet they just kept on pounding away with an obvious smear campaign? If the MSM has no left wing bias then there should be plenty of well known examples similar to the "macaca" flap, given the plethora of outrageous calumny from top Dem politicos since the "stolen election" of 2000. Please list one that ranks up there with the "macaca" smear job. It should be like picking low hanging fruit. Just one reality based instance. Uh huh. I didn't think so. I rest my case.

To: Cogito who wrote (52690)	11/2/2006 6:47:05 AM
From: Sully-	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

<< "In the case of the botched joke, clearly there is room for doubt." >> Sorry Allen. When you have top Dem politicos calling for Kerry to apologize, the gig is up. Dems tend to go silent, or worse, defend their own when one of their peers clearly crosses the line (as does the MSM). Any objective reading of Kerry's words in proper context makes it clear he smeared the troops (it's even worse if you watch the tape). He was speaking to students about getting a good education. Kerry's tone & inflection were dead serious as he read from a prepared statement. “You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.” Part of that context includes Kerry's long history of falsely smearing our troops. This certainly looks like more of the same. Now consider that Bush got better grades than Kerry while at Harvard. Nothing Kerry said makes any sense if it's a joke about Bush. Then consider that Kerry changed his story no less than 3 times. First he lashed out at Republicans: "Senator John Kerry issued the following statement in response to White House Press Secretary Tony Snow, assorted right wing nut-jobs, and right wing talk show hosts desperately distorting Kerry's comments..." ....I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh.... to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq. It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have. Then Kerry switched to claiming it was a "botched joke". The punchline was supposed to be: “If you don’t you get us stuck in Iraq!” The next day the punchline was changed back to the original, “you get stuck in Iraq”, but added: “Just ask President Bush.” Sorry Allen. Game over. Kerry can't even come up with a plausible excuse. Instead the excuses just kept on changing from bad to worse. None of it was remotely believable. Kerry has ZERO credibility - as if he had any before this horrific gaffe. ****