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Politics : Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sully- who wrote (53082)	11/6/2006 9:50:41 PM
From: Cogito	Respond to of 90947

* When the ISG report was issued the MSM & DNC intentionally lied & misled the American public about its findings & conclusions. They cherry picked some findings, took others completely out of context & concocted a completely fabricated story line that was contrary to the overall conclusions of the ISG report.<< Sully - I've been reading the ISG report myself, using the version at globalsecurity.org, which has certain things they believe support their view presented in bold. In reporting on the ISG report, it is of course necessary to take things "out of context" to some extent, since the entire report is very long. But having just spent quite a long time looking through the report, and paying special attention not only to the bolded lines but also to the contexts of those lines, I don't see how the MSM or DNC misrepresented the findings. The document, relying in large part on interviews with various Iraqi officials, some of them mid-level, says that Saddam wanted to preserve WMD capabilities, and wanted to resume production of WMDs once sanctions were lifted. Saddam apparently believed that sanctions would eventually be lifted without the requirement for ongoing inspections. I don't see that there was much likelihood of that happening. But the document doesn't provide evidence that there were WMDs in Iraq at the time of our invasion, nor that the capability to produce WMDs had been maintained. Only that Saddam wanted that. Here are some relevant quotes. I'll start with the most important one. This is their conclusion about WMDs in 2003. "ISG has not found evidence that Saddam Husayn possessed WMD stocks in 2003, but the available evidence from its investigation—including detainee interviews and document exploitation—leaves open the possibility that some weapons existed in Iraq although not of a militarily significant capability. Several senior officers asserted that if Saddam had WMD available when the 2003 war began, he would have used them to avoid being overrun by Coalition forces." So the possibility that he had weapons is left open, but not of a militarily significant capability. OK. Moving on. This one refers to the period from 1991 to 1995: "• Saddam’s primary concern was retaining a cadre of skilled scientists to facilitate reconstitution of WMD programs after sanctions were lifted, according to former science advisor Ja’far Diya’ Ja’far Hashim. Saddam communicated his policy in several meetings with officials from MIC, Ministry of Industry and Minerals, and the IAEC in 1991-1992. Saddam instructed general directors of Iraqi state companies and other state entities to prevent key scientists from the pre-1991 WMD program from leaving the country. This retention of scientists was Iraq’s only step taken to prepare for a resumption of WMD, in Ja’far’s opinion. • Presidential secretary ‘Abd Hamid Mahmud wrote that in 1991 Saddam told the scientists that they should “preserve plans in their minds” and “keep the brains of Iraq’s scientists fresh.” Iraq was to destroy everything apart from knowledge, which would be used to reconstitute a WMD program. • Saddam wanted people to keep knowledge in their heads rather than retain documents that could have been exposed, according to former Deputy Prime Minister Tariq ‘Aziz. Nuclear scientists were told in general terms that the program was over after 1991, and Tariq ‘Aziz inferred that the scientists understood that they should not keep documents or equipment. ‘Aziz also noted that if Saddam had the same opportunity as he did in the 1980s, he probably would have resumed research on nuclear weapons." So this time, they say "he probably would have resumed research" if he had the same unfettered freedom he had in the 1980s. I don't think anyone would disagree that Saddam would have just loved to have The Bomb, but neither was anyone suggesting he be given that kind of freedom. Note that it also says that he told his nuclear scientists after 1991 that the program was over. This was about the strongest thing I could find that might, if one stretches credibility, support a view contrary to mine about Saddam's WMDs: "There is an extensive, yet fragmentary and circumstantial, body of evidence suggesting that Saddam pursued a strategy to maintain a capability to return to WMD after sanctions were lifted by preserving assets and expertise. In addition to preserved capability, we have clear evidence of his intent to resume WMD as soon as sanctions were lifted. The infrequent and uninformed questions ascribed to him by former senior Iraqis may betray a lack of deep background knowledge and suggest that he had not been following the efforts closely. Alternatively, Saddam may not have fully trusted those with whom he was discussing these programs. Both factors were probably at play. All sources, however, suggest that Saddam encouraged compartmentalization and would have discussed something as sensitive as WMD with as few people as possible." He wanted to return to WMD production after sanctions were lifted, but he wasn't paying much attention to any efforts to keep those capabilities going. The report is also just full of examples of how Saddam consistently overestimated his own power, underestimated the power of his enemies, and miscalculated as to the effects of his own actions. He expected the Chinese and other nations to come to his aid if the US attacked. He was so paranoid about personal security that he was isolated even from many of his own advisors. In short, the ISG report doesn't contradict my view that Saddam had no WMDs and no capability of producing WMDs. The fact that he would have wanted to have them if he could is immaterial, since he couldn't have them. - Allen

To: Sully- who wrote (53082)	11/6/2006 10:25:05 PM
From: Cogito	Respond to of 90947

>>The Bush Admin knew full well that anything they tried to say to the American public would have to go through the BDS filter of the MSM.<< Sully - The Bush Administration can always just have the President address the public directly on nationwide television. Why didn't he do that? Because the ISG report doesn't say there were WMDs in Iraq. That's not in there. I base that view on facts and reality, because I've just finished reading it. And the people who made up the ISG, were mostly American, and mostly from our Intelligence services. They had a lot to gain by actually finding some hard evidence of WMDs. But they didn't. - Allen