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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: DMaA who wrote (185710)	11/8/2006 3:58:16 PM
From: Ichy Smith	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793845

Here is part of the article about using live ammunition Alarm over using lake as firing range Coast Guard plans live-ammunition training Ecologists, shipping firms `very frightened' Sep. 2, 2006. 01:00 AM CHRISTOPHER MAUGHAN STAFF REPORTER Canadian environmentalists and shipping companies are expressing concern now that the U.S. Coast Guard has unveiled a plan to hold live-ammunition training sessions on the Great Lakes. "On the surface, it seems pretty irresponsible to be firing rounds there," said Ed Rahn, manager of vessel traffic for Seaway Marine Transport in St. Catharines. "As far as I know, we haven't even heard anything about this." The Coast Guard will create 34 permanent training zones in open water near the Great Lakes shorelines. No training sessions are officially scheduled yet, but potential live fire zones include American waters near Thunder Bay and Sault Ste. Marie. Officers would fire from small boats at targets on the water to practise using machine guns, rifles, and 9mm pistols, according to Chief Petty Officer Robert Lanier of Cleveland's 9th Coast Guard District. Rahn said the announcement could have a significant effect on Canadian shipping companies, though he wouldn't get into specifics before learning more about the Coast Guard plan. "Obviously, though, we're not going to go through an area where there's live ammunition," he said. Lanier said Canadian shipping companies had been informed of the exercises, but Liliane Laroche, an assistant manager at Quebec City's Groupe Desgagnés, said she hadn't been told about the training sessions either. "It's very frightening. It's strange," she said. "Normally, we're informed as soon as there's something happening on the Great Lakes." American companies have also expressed surprise at the Coast Guard plan. There was so much outcry about the suddenness of the announcement that members of Congress had to extend a designated public consultation period another 60 days. Lanier recognized that the Coast Guard may have moved too swiftly. "The public may have not received enough information." Environmentalists are concerned because the Coast Guard will be using lead-based ammunition. They say the lead could threaten many species of fish including the lake trout — one of the region's most popular sport fish — because it kills off bottom-dwelling organisms that the lake trout like to eat. "Lead is on the International Joint Commission's list of 11 chemicals for virtual elimination," said Miriam Diamond, a University of Toronto professor studying water pollution. "It's immediately toxic to fish, algae and plankton." Bill Zeleny, a manager at a Thunder Bay marina, echoed Diamond's concerns. "We've had to reduce the use of birdshot on the lake," he said. "Lead brings on disease and other problems when the ducks ingest it." The Coast Guard says it has done an environmental assessment with the help of two independent research companies. But according to the Michigan Environmental Council, that report isn't publicly available. Diamond said the U.S. military has a poor track record over the last 10 years when it comes to the environment. Recent controversies include the use of depleted uranium weapons in Iraq, and the use of the island of Vieques, Puerto Rico, as a target range for U.S. bombs.

To: DMaA who wrote (185710)	11/8/2006 4:03:42 PM
From: Ichy Smith	Respond to of 793845

Uhhh yes they had guns but no they weren't mounted on the boat...... U.S. puts machine-guns on Great Lakes coast guard vessels cbc.ca Last Updated: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 \| 4:00 PM ET CBC News For the first time since 1817, U.S. Coast Guard vessels on the Great Lakes are being outfitted with weapons – machine-guns capable of firing 600 bullets a minute. Until now, coast guard officers have been armed with handguns and rifles, but the vessels themselves haven't been equipped with weapons. The War of 1812 saw violent battles on Lake Erie and Lake Huron between U.S. troops and British forces, which were largely composed of militias from Britain's colonies in what is now Canada. After the war, the United States and Britain – and later Canada – agreed to demilitarize the Great Lakes waters. The Rush-Bagot Treaty of 1817 allowed each country to station four vessels, each equipped with an 18-pound cannon, to safeguard the Great Lakes. The antiquated treaty has recently been reinterpreted because of U.S. concerns about customs violations, human smuggling and international terrorism. Each vessel is now equipped with a 7.62-mm machine-gun, a light military gun that is the same calibre as a deer rifle but capable of shooting 600 bullets per minute. The guns are typically mounted because of their weight. But a spokesman for the U.S. Coast Guard, Petty Officer William Colclough, said they will be stored below decks on the coast guard's 11 Great Lakes cutters and will be mounted only when needed. Warning shots will be fired when vessels refuse to stop, said Colclough, who is based at the U.S. Coast Guard's Great Lakes headquarters in Cleveland. Colclough said staff members have conducted live-fire drills in the past few months in American waters off the coast of Sault Ste. Marie, Ont. A Canadian Foreign Affairs official said Ottawa has agreed to read the treaty in such a way that coast guard vessels may be mounted with guns by considering them weapons of law enforcement rather than war. Canada reserves the right to arm its own vessels as well, the official told CBC News. Under the reinterpretation, which both sides say honours the spirit of the original treaty, vessels may be outfitted with machine-guns of sizes up to .50-calibre. That would be big enough to bring down a helicopter and shoot through a light-armoured vehicle. Colclough said the United States has no intention of equipping the vessels with .50-calibre machine-guns at this point. Frederick Stonehouse, a Michigan-based historian who has written 26 books on the Great Lakes, said the Rush-Bagot treaty's references to wooden ships and cannons have long been obsolete. However, Stonehouse said the spirit of the treaty remains both clear and respected by both sides. "Certainly the Great Lakes [have] not had any military vessels stationed on [them] since – gosh, really since the advent of that treaty."