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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: jlallen who wrote (314364)	12/7/2006 2:01:47 PM
From: Road Walker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1575637

re: Nonsense...Bush never said it would be a cakewalk....more silly pinhead nonsense... I didn't say Bush, I said the neo's. So don't "nonsense" me brother. re: The Dems could help by not emboldening the enemy by calling for withdrawls, calling the President a liar, etc....the Iraq Surrender Group's report is probably the death knell for any kind of hope that we might win in Iraq....rather than focusing on winning...the ISG seems only to have come up with a way to exit...very poor report indeed. If we abandon the Iraqis, it will be another national disgrace similar to the disgrace in Vietnam. The disgrace was starting either war. A traditional conservative would never go there. If the ISG report is a death knell, then they did us a favor.

To: jlallen who wrote (314364)	12/7/2006 2:18:46 PM
From: combjelly	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1575637

"Bush never said it would be a cakewalk...." Those words may have never crossed Bush's lips. But they did from at least one official. And others said words to that effect. In a sense, they were correct. The actual war was a cakewalk. The aftermath was botched for policy reasons. "The Dems could help by not emboldening the enemy by calling for withdrawls, calling the President a liar, etc..." Right, we should all be good Nazis and keep our mouths shut. Ignoring the lies and spin that comes out of the the administration for the good of the country. Even if those things were done, it wouldn't have made an ounce of difference. The British ran into the same problems when they created Iraq in the first place. They had more than 10 times the number of soldiers per unit population of Iraqis than we do now. And they still had rebellions and strife. There is no common interest holding Iraq together as a country. It was arbitrarily created by the British and has only been held together by extreme force. Thinking it would be different because we removed Saddam was foolish, both in fore and hindsight. "the Iraq Surrender Group's report is probably the death knell for any kind of hope that we might win in Iraq...." There is no scenario that leads to a "win" in the sense of the original mission. It might be possible to have a "win" by finding another Saddam. At this stage, even that might not work. In a theoretical sense, we could have a "win" by making a major commitment, a million or more troops over several generations. It is in a theoretical sense because that relies on the hope that it will work and isn't based on anything that has happened before. "it will be another national disgrace similar to the disgrace in Vietnam." Another situation where there wasn't a "win" scenario. The French tried it, didn't work. We were at a stalemate only because we restricted ourselves to sitting in our firebases. So we weren't losing, but we weren't making progress. We couldn't. Sure, if the North Vietnamese stood up and fought a conventional battle, like they did during Tet, we would smear them, even against the odds. But, except for Tet, they didn't. We didn't have the right sort of troops to win that kind of war, nor did we have enough.

To: jlallen who wrote (314364)	12/9/2006 8:48:46 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1575637

Nonsense...Bush never said it would be a cakewalk....more silly pinhead nonsense... Ole Rummie said it would take "six days, maybe six weeks but no more than six months". Cheney also indicated that the fighting would be over very quickly. Bush himself spoke under a sign saying "Missioned Accomplished" several weeks after the war had started and after a visit to Iraq. Everyone of those gentlemen led us to believe this would be, in fact, a cakewalk. We on this thread, of course, knew better but many Americans did not.