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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: neolib who wrote (210117)	12/7/2006 5:34:14 PM
From: geode00	Respond to of 281500

"Will US troops actually be placed under the tactical control of Iraqis?" There was much annoyance that Dubya was putting the future of US troops in Iraq in the hands of Maliki. He's going from bad to worse trying to find a safe port to hide in while everyone else badgers him to do something constructive. I can't tell if he's just having trouble forming intelligent sentences or if he's really putting the onus onto the Iraqis for whatever happens to US troops. I think the ISG report started off being pretty mild and supportive but came out (especially in the interviews) swinging harshly. I don't think Junior expected that to happen and perhaps that was what Poppy was blubbering about the other day when ostensibly talking about Jeb. It's another food fight between Poppy and Dubya while the violence gets worse all the time. I wonder if Washington is seriously going to go on holiday vacation while all of this is happening....I guess so. Pathetic. We really do need better employees.

To: neolib who wrote (210117)	12/8/2006 2:12:18 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Neolib, re: "Some people genetically cannot get it." I'm beginning to think that's true although I suppose it would be more accurate to state that some people, genetically, have a difficult time getting it. But one thing is certain; some people are mentally nimble when it comes to nuances and critical thinking and some people are not. Oddly enough, those that aren't particularly nimble in the abstract, deductive field may well be adept in other areas. I'd guess it's akin to being talented in algebra and hopelessly lost in geometry. That can present problems because, unfortunately, people who are "smart" in some things tend to deny the fact that they're "not smart" in others. We're left with black and white thinkers who are strong in the sense of being determined, morally certain and unconflicted, AND SOMETIMES VERY, VERY WRONG. Those can be the very attributes make them attractive as leaders in times of fear and uncertainty. For many years we had an opponent in the Soviet Union that was capable of inflicting horrendous damage. In that setting the American public was cautious about letting one of the black and white thinkers bulldozer his way ahead. With the collapse of the Soviets and the resulting "one world superpower" anointment of the US, the stage was set for the emergence of one of "them," a black and white, morally certain and unconflicted leader supported by legions of morally certain, unconflicted black and white thinking supporters. We've seen where that kind of leadership can take us. But even now they have little appreciation for the "waffling, relative, too reasonable" among us who make decisions based upon a multi-perspective view of the issues and who rarely, if ever, think we're 100% right. But there is a point where even the nuance challenged among us begin to lose their certainty. And that point is reached when they HAVE to reevaluate their set-in-concrete, morally certain positions because of the painful and unflinching forces of reality. (Global warming, anyone?) What's interesting is where they'll turn after the Bush/Cheney Iraq debacle. I'm sure they won't suddenly be capable of becoming reasonable, thoughtful and insightful. Just as some of the most rabid liberals from among the baby boomers became some of the most rabid conservatives, they'll turn to another view of reality that will be just as nuance challenged but what will it be? Will they suddenly disengage and have nothing to do with politics?" Will they turn a 180 and adopt rigid views that reflect the thinking they earlier rejected? Or will they simply make a few color adjustments to the tuner and forge ahead as before blaming the "bad leader," the "disloyal opposition," or the weak kneed among the "thems" for the terrible failures in Iraq. Who knows, but thankfully they've lost the mildly impaired thinkers who previously tilted their way and, depending on the soundness of the leadership and persuasiveness of the rhetoric the Democrats offer, it may be long while before the pendulum swings that far off center again. Ed PS, thanks for your lucid discussion regarding charitable giving in America. I had never viewed it from that perspective and I was enlightened.