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Politics : Foreign Policy Discussion Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (7902)	12/24/2006 4:23:05 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 15987

We can't make the people in the Middle East do what we want them to do by force. The British tried and failed. The Soviets tried it and failed. We tried it and failed. We can't? Then why did it seem to work so well in WWI and WWII? I think you know your statement just shows how full of Sht you are Mary.. And why don't you just plainly state the pregnant implication of your statement.. We can't make them change their attitudes, but they can make us change ours. We can't confront them, but they are free to confront us. Why don't you just get yourself a one-way ticket to Baghdad and surrender yourself to the first Jihadi you find?? Maybe people like YOU can't make ANYONE do anything because you're too spineless to protect yourself and fight for your interests (and self-preservation and national security is certainly in your interest, as it is in mine). But the rest of us are not so concerned about fighting for the values that we believe in. And if the Islamo-Fascists aren't ashamed about calling for global Jihad to dominate and destroy we infidels, I don't believe it's conducsive to our interests to permit them to hold that belief unopposed. It's alright for them to declare global Jihad, but the minute some foolish statement is made about waging a "crusade" against them, folks declare the Christian fundamentalists are dangerous. My view is that we have an interest in preventing, both Muslims and Christians, from using their religious beliefs to perpetrate violence in the name of their respective faiths. And even if we can't make them do everything we "want them to do", we certainly can exactly a price for doing something that directly threatens our national security. How could Jihadist ever get their kids to memorize th Koran when they have seen Disneyland and Harvard University on the Internet.* Ask yourself how could any Jihadist think they could recruit adherents by showing beheadings on the internet? Yet, it happens all the time. And then ask yourself how anyone could be brainwashed into believing that the very concept of government accountable, via elections, to its nation's citizens could be opposed?? Yet.. prior to the founding of the US, the world had been submerged in tyranny and aristrocracy for thousands of years. And certainly even the Greeks and Romans did not hold the same values of "inalienable" rights as we have come to hold so dearly. There's a long history of people foreswearing your disneyland "utopia" for more draconian and oppressive ideologies. Because when people have "utopia" they are much less easier to control. They have expectations of their government. They come to believe they have a sense of entitlement as individuals. But deny them democracy, force (or brainwash) them to adher to religious, or political austerity, using violence and intimidation, and they are much easier to be controlled and manipulated. Look at yourself as an example.. We obviously disagree in our political views. But were I a tyrant, I'd just send my armed goons to pay you a visit (or send you a picture of your children at play in the schoolyard). This would, of course, be reciprocal, were you given the power to tyrannize me. And Mary, that's the manner in which the majority of mankind still lives. They are intimidated, coerced, and when necessary, "neutralized" when they fail to uphold the "party line". So welcome to the real world Mary.. It's nasty, brutish, and absolutely not just or fair. And if you want to preserve and spread civilized and tolerant behavior, unfortunately you have to display an intolerance for intolerance. And you have to confront violent and oppressive ideologies with greater violence... And I'll never apologize for fighting on behalf the struggle for accountable government. Hawk