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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: KLP who wrote (191824)1/5/2007 8:59:20 PM
From: LindyBill  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793964
 
.It certainly is well worth reading!

I read it and didn't post it. Just more moaning and groaning, IMO.



To: KLP who wrote (191824)1/6/2007 2:03:04 AM
From: Maurice Winn  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793964
 
Let's stick with the numbers, rather than the description of method [tortured/mutilated]: <Of the 6 billion people on this Earth, not one killed more people than Saddam Hussein. And not just killed but tortured and mutilated>

As an American military boss said, "There's no nice way to kill somebody", so let's leave off the mutilated and tortured part. If I was killed by being shot with a rifle, I would consider it mutilation and torture. Different from having a drill through my brain, but probably more painful. Brains don't have pain receptors [though they get headaches] so doctors can prod brains which are awake and the person doesn't feel pain.

So, who is in the running for "Living person who has killed the most other people"? And we should include Saddam though he is dead, as his is the benchmark.

I have probably killed a few through incompetence or carelessness or even negligence in specifying or arguing for fuel specifications which would reduce vehicle fires in crashes. Maybe I have induced some to support welfare systems which have caused deaths through funding evil-doers to live on welfare using their unloved, cruelly-treated and now dead children as meal-tickets.

But direct actual deaths - I'm not going to win. Saddam has allegedly done some. How many? Not very many I guess. Nearly all have been by law enforcers or as a result of wars. He couldn't really claim all the Iranians and Iraqis killed in the war between Iran and Iraq as he had USA support and without USA support he might not have bothered, which suggests an American might be able to claim some of those if not all.

Henry Kissinger is still alive and he must be a contender because of his enthusiasm for Indonesia taking over East Timor, without including any Vietnamese in the equations.

How about Hu Jintao who perhaps has a few notches to his belt from his days in Tibet? What about Rwanda? Somebody should be able to claim a lot there. Remember Bosnia-Herzegovina which was a big deal in the 1990s. Then April Glaspie and James Baker were Gung Ho for Saddam invading Kuwait. James could claim a hand in that, though Saddam would dispute the claim [if he was alive].

How about whoever invented AIDS retrovirals which have kept swarms of HIV people alive to go on and infect and kill hordes of others? They could claim a LOT of people and maybe more than anyone as AIDS deaths are in the millions.

If we stick to a definition of violent death which was definitely not self-inflicted or inadvertent, there really are not that many contenders these days. The world is a very benign place.

Saddam was a rank amateur compared with swarms of others. Heck, one bloke dropping a bomb over Hiroshima beat Saddam and Saddam had to work at it for years, not just fly an aeroplane over a city and be back in time for tea.

I don't think Saddam can claim those through the shredding machine because the blokes who actually did the work could claim that. Same as King George II can't claim those in Hadditha and Kissinger can't claim those in My Lai.

Mqurice



To: KLP who wrote (191824)1/6/2007 2:35:53 AM
From: Maurice Winn  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793964
 
Then there are the Good Guys. Who were NOT recognized at the time: <Hugh C. Thompson, Jr. (April 15, 1943 – January 6, 2006) was a helicopter pilot during the Vietnam War. He is chiefly known for his role in curtailing the My Lai massacre, during which he was flying a reconnaissance mission.

Born in Atlanta, Georgia, Thompson joined the US Navy in 1961—then US Army in 1966 and trained as a helicopter pilot. He volunteered for the Aerial Scout Unit and assigned to Task Force Barker to fly over Vietnamese forests and try to draw enemy fire to pinpoint the location of troops. Serving as one door-gunner, his Crew Chief was Glenn Andreotta and his other door-gunner was Spc Lawrence Colburn, both of whom would later receive recognition for heroism for their role at My Lai, though Andreotta died three weeks after the event.
Contents
[hide]

* 1 The massacre
* 2 After My Lai
* 3 External links
* 4 References

[edit] The massacre

After coming across the dead bodies of Vietnamese civilians outside My Lai on March 16, 1968, Thompson set down their OH-23 and the three men began setting green smoke markers by the prone bodies of the Vietnamese civilians who appeared to still be alive to call in medical assistance. Returning to the helicopter however, they saw Captain Ernest Medina run forward and begin shooting the wounded who had been marked - and the three men moved their ship back over the village where Thompson confronted Lt. Stephen Brooks who was preparing to blow up a hut full of wounded Vietnamese; he left Andreotta and Colburn to cover the company with their heavy machine guns and orders to fire on any American who refused the orders to halt the massacre. None of the officers dared to disobey him, even though (as a warrant officer) Thompson was outranked by the commissioned lieutenants present. Colburn later recounted the following dialogue.[1]

Thompson: Let's get these people out of this bunker and get 'em out of here.
Brooks: We'll get 'em out with hand grenades.
Thompson: I can do better than that. Keep your people in place. My guns are on you.

Thompson then ordered two other helicopters (one piloted by Dan Millians and the other by Brian Livingstone) flying nearby to serve as a medevac for the 11 wounded Vietnamese. While flying away from the village, Andreotta spotted movement in an irrigation ditch, and the helicopter was again landed and a child was extracted from the bodies, and brought with the rest of the Vietnamese to the hospital at Quang Ngai.

Thompson subsequently reported the massacre, whilst it was still occurring, to his superiors. The cease-fire order was then given.

[edit] After My Lai

Retained on the dangerous OH-23 Raven helicopter missions, which some considered punishment for his intervention and the subsequent media coverage, Thompson was shot down a total of five times, breaking his backbone on the last attack. He suffered psychological scars from his service in Vietnam throughout the rest of his life.

Exactly thirty years later, the three were awarded the Soldier's Medal (Andreotta posthumously), the United States Army's highest award for bravery not involving direct contact with the enemy. In 1999, Thompson and Colburn received the Peace Abbey Courage of Conscience Award. Later that year, both men served as co-chairs of STONEWALK, a group that pulled a 1-ton rock engraved "Unknown Civilians Killed in War," from Boston to Arlington National Cemetery.
Thompson and Colburn at the My Lai monument in 1998
Thompson and Colburn at the My Lai monument in 1998

In 1998, Thompson and Colburn returned to the village in My Lai, where they met with some of the villagers saved through their actions — including Do Hoa, who had been pulled from the irrigation ditch at age 8. They also dedicated a new elementary school for the children of the village.

In a 2004 interview with "60 Minutes," he was quoted referring to C-Company's men involved in the massacre, "I mean, I wish I was a big enough man to say I forgive them, but I swear to God, I can't."

He served as a counselor in the Louisiana Department of Veterans Affairs, and gave a lecture at the United States Naval Academy in 2003 and the United States Military Academy in 2005 on Professional Military Ethics.

At the age of 62, Thompson was removed from life support, after extensive cancer treatment, and died on January 6, 2006, at the Veterans Affairs Medical Center in Alexandria, Louisiana. Lawrence Colburn came from Atlanta, Georgia to be at his bedside. Thompson was buried in Lafayette, Louisiana, with full military honors, including a 21-gun salute and a helicopter flyover.

[edit] External links

* Linder, Douglas (1999) The Heroes of My Lai (first-hand report by Thompson) The My Lai Courts-Martial 1970.
* Bock, Paula (March 10, 2002) The Choices Made: Lessons from My Lai on drawing the line Seattle Times Magazine
* My Lai Pilot Hugh Thompson via All Things Considered, NPR.
* Find-A-Grave profile

[edit] References

* Michael Bilton & Kevin Sim, Four Hours in My Lai. Penguin Books, 1992.
* Trent Angers, The Forgotten Hero of My Lai: The Hugh Thompson Story. Acadian House Publishing, 1999.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson%2C_Jr."

Categories: 1943 births | 2006 deaths | People from Georgia (U.S. state) | Vietnam War veterans | United States Army officers | American aviators | Soldier's Medal recipients | Recipients of the Purple Heart medal | Whistleblowers
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Shot down 5 times and they couldn't get him killed!!! Damn the lucky bastard!!!

Mqurice