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Politics : Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (54328)	1/12/2007 4:02:51 AM
From: tejek	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 90947

If you told any intelligent, educated, non ideologue adult that the New Deal was an unmitigated failure, they would laugh in your face . Almost all of the "New Deal" initiatives were ultimately ruled as unconstitutional. I am not sure that's accurate. A number of components of the New Deal have survived to this day: the SEC, the TVA, the FDIC, SS, etc. That is why FDR made his brazen effort to pack the Supreme Court with additional justices. He did try but failed: "By 1934, the Supreme Court began declaring significant parts of the New Deal unconstitutional. This led Roosevelt to propose the Court-packing Bill in 1937. Although the bill failed, the Supreme Court started upholding New Deal laws. By 1942, the Supreme Court had almost completely abandoned its "judicial activism" of striking down congressional laws, as accused by New Deal supporters. The Supreme Court ruled in Wickard v. Filburn that the Commerce Clause covered almost all such regulation allowing the unnecessary expansion of federal power to make the New Deal "constitutional." en.wikipedia.org That is why FDR made his brazen effort to pack the Supreme Court with additional justices. As late as 1941 the Depression lingered on. The Depression only lifted with the start of WWII and the subsequent war economy. Most economists say recovery from the Depression began in the late thirties but you're right we didn't reach full employment until 1941. The fact that the New Deal was a technical failure does not diminish FDR's magnificent achievement in boosting the spirits of Americans through that painful decade. The Depression itself was a worldwide phenomenon that was beyond "fixing" by any one nation or leader. I agree with you that FDR was an amazing president. No intelligent and knowledgeable person would laugh at the assertion that the New Deal (in and of itself) was an unmitigated failure. Agreed.

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (54328)	1/15/2007 6:22:18 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

As late as 1941 the Depression lingered on. The Depression only lifted with the start of WWII and the subsequent war economy. That's also become a commonly accepted idea, but just as I don't agree that the New Deal was positive for the economy, I can't agree with the WWII ended the depression idea. Or at least that US involvement in WWII directly ended the despression. US sales to warring countries (both early in the war and in anticipation of the war) before we got involved might have helped. See marginalrevolution.com mackinac.org and somewhat related even though it doesn't cover WWII marginalrevolution.com frbsf.org

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (54328)	1/16/2007 11:40:21 AM
From: TimF	Respond to of 90947

B. Horrigan writes: The timing of this dustup about FDR and the New Deal in the blogosphere has curious timing. This upcoming November will be the 75th anniversary of the election of FDR. New Speaker Nancy Pelosi is an admirer of FDR, wants to preserve its legacy, and wants to make the 3rd stage of the New Deal. (LBJ gave us the second stage.) First, it was Social Security in FDR. Then it was Medicare under LBJ. (Truman tried for national health insurance, but failed. Same with Ted Kennedy.) And the next round of Democratic rule will be nationalized medical system. The real reason that Democrats went bonkers over Bush's fairly reasonable proposals for Social Security reform is that it was a challenge to the legacy of the New Deal. Democrats still sing "Happy Days Are Here Again," the anthem of FDR, ever time they win an election. That won't change. As for the rhetoric, the fight goes right to the ocre of the greatest debate of the last 150 years. What is the nature of capitalism? For FDR and his allies, capitalism (esp. corporate capitalism) is about greed, selfishness, shortsightedness, and hostility; it is about "dog eat dog" competition. Capitalism produced wars, depressions,and chronic poverty. John Kennedy would quote his gangster (and Democratic) father to the effect that all businessmen were "s.o.b.'s" Even leftish professional academic economists, who coolly publish models of constrained optimization, show moral disdain towards business people. Hollywood typically displays such attitudes: in how many movies and tv shows is the villain a capitalist? Most of the time. Such attitudes carry over to partisan politics. The venom shown toward the Republican Party is rooted in the belief that Republicans are simply the hired agents of the ruling capitalist class. Republicans are perceived, unlike Democrats, as having no ideas but only selfish interests. To attack the great godlet FDR is to strike at the root of the Democratic Party and the anti-capitalist mentality. You are in for a tough fight. Posted January 12, 2007 11:06 AM econlog.econlib.org