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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Elroy who wrote (219696)	2/20/2007 2:29:33 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

What really terrifies the Pal leadership is the idea that their declared sovereignty would be taken seriously - because in that case, they might be expected to act like the leaders of a sovereign country. Which might hurt the global campaign designed to paint them as helpless victims, and decrease the amount of foreign welfare they are getting. Besides the Pal leaders don't answer to the Pal people. They answer to their backers in Saudi Arabia, the Gulf and Iran. Their backers aren't paying them to become a country. Their backers are paying them to keep up the jihad until Israel is destroyed.

To: Elroy who wrote (219696)	2/20/2007 9:06:03 AM
From: jttmab	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The question was not whether the world would laugh at a PA declaration of sovereignty, it was about their goal. I agree with her that the goal of the PA today is a nation of Palestine which encompasses and replaces Israel. Whether they have the power to do that is not the point. I don't really care whether you or Nadine think the Palestinians want to destroy Israel. Making the claim that because they haven't declared sovereignty in some way proves the point is utterly absurd. It only demonstrate that her pre-determined speculation allows her to imagine proof in a non-event. One could generate a list of events that actually occurred and likely encourage Palestinians and other Arabs to believe the only solution is the destruction of Israel if it would please you to have such a list. Do you actually think that withholding aid to Palestinians because they elected Hamas convinces the Palestinians to accept Israel? I don't. The US and Israel might as well pick the elected Hamas members and torture them until they sign the "appropriate" statements and read on camera from an Israeli generated script. The more militant wing of Hamas told the members of Hamas before the election that they were wasting their time trying to join the political process. Unfortunately, Israel and the US are proving they were right. You think that when an MP in Egypt claims that the only solution to Israel is to nuke them you're making progress towards peace. Do you think that when other MPs in Egypt call to withdraw from the peace accord with Israel that's progress towards peace? Perhaps if Israel bulldozes a few more Palestinian homes they will be inclined to accept Israel? Maybe Israel just hasn't done enough extra-judicial assassinations to encourage Palestinians to accept Israel? Perhaps a few dozen more Israeli settlements in the occupied territories would finally convince the Palestinians that Israel supports the road map for a Palestinian state? I was wondering last night whether Israel has renounced violence. Do you know? And I hope the next time the Palestinians have a free election we have the decency to tell them who they are allowed to vote before they print the ballots rather than wait until after the election to punish them for voting the wrong way. One can only imagine that the debate over whether it's occupied territories or disputed territories and the significance of the absence of the word "the" in 242 affect the Palestinians. Do you think those important distinctions are the major topic of discussion in the slums of Gaza. ... "Hey, Mohammed, since we're unemployed and can't feed our children we've got the time to discuss ... Are we living in an "occupied territory" or a "disputed territory"? ... And have you ever thought about who actually "legally" owns the territory that we are living in? Isn't that an interesting anomoly?...Did you notice that in the English language version of 242 the word "the" is absent from the call for Israel to withdraw from occupied territories while in the French version "des" does appear.....yes I noticed that, but let's be clear that the original submission of 242 was by Britain, not by the French ... ah, you make an excellent point...Great discussion let's continue this later. I need to go off now to see if I can find some food for my family." jttmab