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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (219782)	2/20/2007 2:15:01 PM
From: bentway	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

"if you live like a an angel on earth but do not believe in Christ, then you are still going down. "////// The Mormons have the answer! Baptism by proxy after the death of the uninformed or deluded non-believer. Both Hitler and Einstein are Mormons now, plucked from Hell and comfortably ensconced in Mormon heaven. It's kind of an encouraged hobby among the Mormon faithful, although some Rabbis did make a stink when it was discovered that some Mormons were busily baptising Jewish Holocaust victims.. en.wikipedia.org I wonder if Mitt Romney has done this? Anyway, if you know anyone that went to Hell, and want to bail them out, call a Mormon! What could it hurt?

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (219782)	2/20/2007 3:42:09 PM
From: jttmab	Respond to of 281500

Deleted.

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (219782)	2/20/2007 9:23:31 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I said I am not a very good Catholic. But your understanding of Catholic dogma is woefully inadequate -- not that this is a fault of yours, you were not brought up Catholic, and all you know is what you've picked up from casual reading and conversation. The Church takes the position that the only way that we know to go to heaven is to be baptised and die in a state of grace, but we cannot deny that God has His own plans and methods of which we may be ignorant. Thus, it has often been debated but never to a universally satisfactory conclusion whether godly people who are not Christians will nevertheless go to heaven. One major category is people who were born before the birth of Christ, including all the patriarchs and church fathers of the Old Testament. It doesn't seem possible that they were condemned to hell, and thus, there must be another way, that is to say, living a godly life and following God's laws. The second main category is unbaptized infants and children who never committed sin. The third main category is people born after Christ's birth who never heard of Christ, and thus, could not reject His teachings. The fourth category is people who have heard of Christ, did not follow Him, but nevertheless live according to God's laws, which really cannot be called rejecting God. We know God loves us, and wants us to be happy. Thus, punishing us for things that are not our fault is inconsistent with God's nature. Your statement that "God honors what the Church promises" is as wrong as it is possible to be wrong. A priest cannot absolve you of sin if you do not make a genuine act of contrition, admitting to yourself as well as to God, that you sinned and asking for forgiveness. Our relationship with God is personal. God will forgive us if we sincerely ask for forgiveness. God will absolve us of sin if we sincerely repent and ask for forgiveness. Thus, it is not even necessary for a priest to act as intermediary. I am not going to debate this with you. If you sincerely desire to learn more about the Catholic Church, there are adult education classes taught at night by priests. These meet once a week for months. There is a lot to learn.