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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Elroy who wrote (221246)	2/26/2007 3:00:55 PM
From: michael97123	Respond to of 281500

Go try to fire a teacher with tenure. If latorneau had tenure she would still be giving live sex ed to the boyz

To: Elroy who wrote (221246)	2/26/2007 4:29:02 PM
From: jttmab	Respond to of 281500

Standardized tests. Your kids pass more than your peer teachers' kids, you get the big year end bonus, and they don't. What's the problem? If you take the General Math and pre-algebra classes and Kate gets the Geometry and Advanced Placement Math classes that wouldn't be a problem for Kate. jttmab

To: Elroy who wrote (221246)	2/26/2007 4:38:29 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Elroy, re: "Standardized tests. Your kids pass more than your peer teachers' kids, you get the big year end bonus, and they don't. What's the problem?" The problem is that what you suggest is not a reliable indication of teacher excellence. There are some classes where you could take your worst teacher and have the highest standardized test scores, partly because smart parents shop classrooms, partly because of demographics and partly because every class is different. What you might suggest is that the change in the aggregate scores of the classes be used to determine teacher excellence. That would require tracking each students prior scores and computing the extent of the drop or the increase and it would be a much more accurate measurement of teacher performance. The majority of teachers won't like that approach either, however. It's only human nature that someone with a comfortable cushion for their job performance will not want to invite closer scrutiny. The real key to improving education, however, is not some kind of one size fits all approach to improving teacher performance. The real key is improved management at the school site level. The single most important determinant of whether a school is on the upswing or downswing is the competence of the lead administrator. Trace that one step further back and you'll find school boards. Trace that another step back and you'll find cumbersome state bureaucracies and mounds of i dotting and t crossing regulations. Significant improvements will require less bureaucracy, less state control, more local control and more common sense leadership at the school site level. That's where we should be looking and that's where some states are looking. Many states are looking at authorizing people who've been successful in leadership positions in the government or in industry to become school administrators. Unfortunately, common sense and inspiring leadership are hard to find. But if you want to try more top down fixes, be my guest. Ed

To: Elroy who wrote (221246)	2/26/2007 4:57:14 PM
From: Katelew	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Classrooms aren't homogeneous. My regular english class would have a different mix of students than yours. I might beome incentivised to expel or transfer out my 'dumb troublemakers'. For that matter, I myself could have 3 regular english classes that could vary considerably on a composite comparison. I could have substantial variations from one year to the next based on ethnic mixes. My area is being inundated with illegals to work the poultry business and construction. Our schools are struggling with it. Above all, I would be incentivised to teach the test. I might decide the composite score would be higher if I focused on the smartest kids and raised their scores and let the weaker kids fall to their own level or vice versa. As an ex-teacher, my preference would be to throw some serious money at reducing class sizes and giving merit pay to teachers willing to work in sub-standard, inner-city type schools.....combat pay we'll call it. On top of that maybe some small types of incentive pay that all teachers could compete for each year if there was alot of extra money floating around...LOL.