To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (225434 ) 3/28/2007 4:04:52 PM From: neolib Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500 But you are taking both sides of this argument. First you deligitmize the private owners of the land, most (but far from all) of whom were in Damascus, saying they were "foreign". But they were only "foreign" because of borders that the Brits had just drawn - borders you also want to deligitmize because they were colonial! So which is it? Neither the owners in Damascus, nor the Brits could claim ownership that would change anything IMO. That is why I used the example of El Salvador. It is not much different from any colonial example where a given ruler, either for money, or staring down a gun barrel, sold his country to foreigners. Provided his people's descendents held a significant demographic majority, they got the country back. In the case of the USA, Australia, etc, the issue was dealt with by making sure the demographic issue didn't return, although I would say this was not an evil foresight, it is just how things happened.Then again, the Middle East is fundamentally different from sub-Saharan Africa. This is not a case of tribal organizaation with communal lands with vague boundaries. The Middle East has a long history of well-defined property rights and the concept of selling land. It goes back thousands of years. Abraham bought the Cave of the Patriarchs for a burial ground 4000 years ago. Not the nomadic middle easterners, and if you read up on their history, you will find that they often got the sort end of the stick on land deals in the ME.So this implied argument that anybody claiming to be an original inhabitant should just be able to cancel out property sales based on moral supremacy, well I don't buy it, and wouldn't even if I thought the Palestinian Arabs were the original inhabitants, which they are not. You know perfectly well how many people have lived in Palestine throughout the years - Christians, Jews, Muslims, Circassian, Druze, Samaritans, you name it, they've been there. I have no problem with things shifting with time. Indeed, I live in a town which 25 years ago was likely < 5% Hispanic, and is now 35-40% Hispanic (all without warfare!) But you should clearly understand that these sifts may come with strife, especially if you try to shift "rapidly" and against people's desires. In the modern world, we try to defuse strife by looking for solutions that both sides find acceptable. With time, injustices do become forgotten, and even forgiven. As for how the population of the US would react to your hypothetical scenario, I would say: very differently from the Arabs, more like Europe has reacted to the much more violent upheavals and population moves it has suffered in the last hundred years. There would be a war, followed by a treaty, followed by getting on with their lives. So basically you think the USA would simply accept, within a pretty short time span, the results of such a change? Look how long it took us to normalise relations with Vietnam, which was very far from actually taking some of the USA soil.Only the Arab world (and again I insist that you can only understand the problem by looking at the whole region) has decided to hold itself hostage to the Question of Palestine, and use Israel as a scapegoat that prevents reform or political change in the Arab lands. This is what I constantly see as your POV. In summary, the key problem in the ME is Arab mindset and behavior. If it were not for that, there would be no problem. That is why I asked you about the USA/Hispanic thought experiment. IMO, it is far from no problem. Even if you take that view, what is the solution? How are you going to change the Arab mindset and behavior so that you obtain your goal? I agree that Israel's behavior largely reflects your POV. The solution is to depend on the military until Arabs finally accept the reality of Israel, and "get on with their lives". IMO, this is not a winning strategy, and in fact, will make the final solution much worse.