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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lou Weed who wrote (227629)	4/18/2007 9:59:20 AM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

I agree with a good deal of what you say. What concerns me most about your posts and those of neolib is that you bring your own baggage to the fray. It used to be the "beleagured jewish state" but since they won now they are oppressors. Remember the IRA intitially funnelled arms and money to the jews not the arabs. Israelis identified with the irish. Then israel won and now its the poor pals and indeed they do suffer. Lets stop looking at history so much and blaming the landscape or the rough and Putt for peace.

To: Lou Weed who wrote (227629)	4/18/2007 3:55:13 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

If you would have told me about what's happening in Ireland today back in '87 I would have said you were out of your mind....never going to happen in my lifetime! Well it has and is and due mainly to the persistence in negotiation by the two parties through a very influential mediator (George Mitchell). Call me crazy but I hope that the same thing happens between the Israelis and Palestinians. I am convinced that this will only happen through US intervention, as was the case in Northern Ireland. The road to peace in Jerusalem leads through Washington. I just hope that the road will open again soon....I predict it will after 2008. I think you are ignoring the two most important factors in Northern Ireland: England and Ireland. England and Ireland both decided they had had enough of the Troubles. They wanted them over. Ireland had developed a business-friendly economy and was becoming prosperous. It didn't want to foster the stew of old hatreds against England on its northern border anymore. If the major Arab countries ever made a similar decision, peace could come to the Mideast very quickly. But the Arab regimes are not prosperous and more importantly, wouldn't know how to maintain their power base in prosperity. So they don't want it. What they do want is a scapegoat and a cause, to focus their peoples' attention away from the troubles at home. Israel and Palestine do wonderfully well, and they have done everything in their power to make sure the troubles fester and get worse. President Clinton never came close to any solution. That was an illusion. Read the post-mortems, it should be clear by now. When talks got serious, where were Arafat's backers? Where were Saudi Arabia and Syria and Egypt? Did they want him to close a deal? Did they want to declare that the conflict was over, close the permanent "refugee camps" that the UN funds, and work out resettlement plans for the "refugees"? Not a bit of it, and you know it. The purpose of the "peace process" is just the same as the purpose of the permanent multi-generation "refugees" and the sufferings of the Palestinian people. They are clubs to destroy Israel with. Just like the latest "peace plan" which demands that Israel stop Jewish immigration but opens its gates to 5 million Palestinians. The end goal is obvious: an Arab Palestine, with the Jews driven out. If you still think that Jews could live in an Arab Palestine even as second-class citizens, I suggest you ask some Palestinian Christians how they have been doing lately. You'll find most of them in places other than Palestine.