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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (334847)4/23/2007 11:47:50 AM
From: Elroy  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1573922
 
it's time the liberals finally admitted to what they stand for: the abolition of the 2nd Amendment.

2nd amendment is fine, just raise the gun and ammo tax!



To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (334847)4/23/2007 11:53:09 AM
From: Thomas M.  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 1573922
 
it's time the liberals finally admitted to what they stand for: the abolition of the 2nd Amendment.

Numba Two, a.k.a. The Deuce --- "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It's rather ironic that as you typed those words you are supporting murderous aggression against militias in Iraq.

Anyway, if liberals hope to eventually gut 1 amendment, that's pretty good compared to the Busheviks who have already gutted 6 amendments (1,4,5,6,7,8).

Tom



To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (334847)4/23/2007 12:01:18 PM
From: American Spirit  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1573922
 
Rightwing NRA types, stop lying about the 2nd Amendment.

The 2nd Amendment was crafted at a time when we had just defeated the British and we had to make sure no other tyrants, monarchies or corrupt autocrats moves to take over our fragile government. In those days also each state was like a little country. That has all changed. Or else maybe some should consider ousting Bush-Cheney in an armed insurrection. After all they did cheat to steal the elections, right?

State militias - they're called the National Guard and the Governors are in charge of them though Bush has tried to take that power away, much to the governors' anger. So we don't need rightwing nutsos in Idaho "protecting us". Half of them are insane anyway. The National Guard fill that task.

The right to bear arms. Fine, what weapons do you really need to bear? You a hunter? Fine, buy a hunting rifle or two. You afraid someone might break into your home? Fine, buy a handgun and keep it safe and away from kids. You a diamond merchant or target of assassination, then maybe you need a concealed weapons permit, but very few people actually need those.

But the NRA is not nearly satsified with those rights, nor do they want any psychiatric background checks or waiting periods. Now, they want our schools to be fully armed, people to have military weapons overpowering the cops, and for there to be a general culture of gun-worshipping addiction all of which puts billions into their pockets. Do we need any of it? Very little. Most of it way over the line and the kids who are dying these days are proof that it's gone too far.



To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (334847)4/23/2007 12:41:40 PM
From: bentway  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1573922
 
Not me pal, and I'm a "liberal"..



To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (334847)4/23/2007 2:27:28 PM
From: d[-_-]b  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1573922
 
Yes - I was listening to the radio (710 KIRO) the other day when the host emphasised the "well regulated" part he made it out that it was not a individual right to self defense.

A caller pointed out the Washington State constitution specifically calls out the right, as does at least 35 other state constitutions - apparently States have misunderstood the 2nd for centuries. :-)

The host said - err, don't know I'll have to look that up.

I've looked - here's the truth:

Washington
SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this SECTION shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

My research -

U.S. and State Constitutions
2nd Amendment construction
U.S. Constitution
Amendments aka Bill of Rights
Article [II.] A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Alabama
SECTION 26 Right to bear arms. That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state.

Alaska
Section 19. Right to Keep and Bear Arms A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The individual right to keep and bear arms shall not be denied or infringed by the State or a political subdivision of the State.

Arizona
Section 26. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men.

Arkansas
Sec. 5. Right to bear arms. The citizens of this State shall have the right to keep and bear arms for their common defense.

California

Colorado
Section 13. Right to bear arms. The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons.

Connecticut
SEC. 15. Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state.

Delaware
Section 20. A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use. (4-16-87)

Florida
SECTION 8. Right to bear arms.--
(a) The right of the people to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves and of the lawful authority of the state shall not be infringed, except that the manner of bearing arms may be regulated by law.
(b) There shall be a mandatory period of three days, excluding weekends and legal holidays, between the purchase and delivery at retail of any handgun. For the purposes of this section, "purchase" means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration to the retailer, and "handgun" means a firearm capable of being carried and used by one hand, such as a pistol or revolver. Holders of a concealed weapon permit as prescribed in Florida law shall not be subject to the provisions of this paragraph.
(c) The legislature shall enact legislation implementing subsection (b) of this section, effective no later than December 31, 1991, which shall provide that anyone violating the provisions of subsection (b) shall be guilty of a felony.
(d) This restriction shall not apply to a trade in of another handgun.
History.--Am. C.S. for S.J.R. 43, 1989; adopted 1990.

Georgia
Paragraph VIII. Arms, right to keep and bear. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, but the General Assembly shall have power to prescribe the manner in which arms may be borne.

Hawaii
RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS Section 17. A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. [Ren Const Con 1978 and election Nov 7, 1978]

Idaho
SECTION 11. RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. The people have the right to keep and bear arms, which right shall not be abridged; but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to govern the carrying of weapons concealed on the person nor prevent passage of legislation providing minimum sentences for crimes committed while in possession of a firearm, nor prevent the passage of legislation providing penalties for the possession of firearms by a convicted felon, nor prevent the passage of any legislation punishing the use of a firearm. No law shall impose licensure, registration or special taxation on the ownership or possession of firearms or ammunition. Nor shall any law permit the confiscation of firearms, except those actually used in the commission of a felony.

Illinois
SECTION 22. RIGHT TO ARMS Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Source: Illinois Constitution.)

Indiana
Section 32. The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State.

Iowa

Kansas
Section 4. Bear arms; armies. The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be tolerated, and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.

Kentucky
Section 1 Seventh: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.

Louisiana
§11. Right to Keep and Bear Arms Section 11. The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged, but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to prohibit the carrying of weapons concealed on the person.

Maine
Section 16. To keep and bear arms. Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned.

Maryland

Massachusetts
Article XVII. The people have a right to keep and to bear arms for the common defence. And as, in time of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be maintained without the consent of the legislature; and the military power shall always be held in an exact subordination to the civil authority, and be governed by it.

Michigan
§ 6 Bearing of arms. Sec. 6.
Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state.
History: Const. 1963, Art. I, § 6, Eff. Jan. 1, 1964 .
Former Constitution: See Const. 1908, Art. II, § 5.

Minnesota

Mississippi
SECTION 12. The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons.

Missouri
Right to keep and bear arms--exception. Section 23. That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons. Source: Const. of 1875, Art. II, § 17.

Montana
Section 12. Right to bear arms. The right of any person to keep or bear arms in defense of his own home, person, and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but nothing herein contained shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons.

Nebraska

New Hampshire
[Art.] 2-a. [The Bearing of Arms.]. All persons have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves, their families, their property and the state. December l, 1982

New Jersey

New Mexico
Sec. 6. No law shall abridge the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes, but nothing herein shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons.

New York

Nevada
Sec. 11. Right to keep and bear arms; civil power supreme.
1. Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes.
2. The military shall be subordinate to the civil power; No standing army shall be maintained by this State in time of peace, and in time of War, no appropriation for a standing army shall be for a longer time than two years.

North Carolina
Sec. 30. Militia and the right to bear arms. A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained, and the military shall be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Nothing herein shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons, or prevent the General Assembly from enacting penal statutes against that practice.

North Dakota

Ohio
§ 1.04 Bearing arms; standing armies; military powers (1851) The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be kept up; and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.

Oklahoma
Section II-26: Bearing arms - Carrying weapons.
The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power, when thereunto legally summoned, shall never be prohibited; but nothing herein contained shall prevent the Legislature from regulating the carrying of weapons.

Oregon
Section 27. Right to bear arms; military subordinate to civil power. The people shall have the right to bear arms for the defence (sic) of themselves, and the State, but the Military shall be kept in strict subordination to the civil power[.]

Pennsylvania
Right to Bear Arms Section 21. The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

Rhode Island
Section 22. Right to bear arms. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

South Carolina
SECTION 20. Right to keep and bear arms; armies; military power subordinate to civil authority; how soldiers quartered. A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. As, in times of peace, armies are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained without the consent of the General Assembly. The military power of the State shall always be held in subordination to the civil authority and be governed by it. No soldier shall in time of peace be quartered in any house without the consent of the owner nor in time of war but in the manner prescribed by law.

South Dakota
§ 24. Right to bear arms. The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be denied.

Tennessee
Section 26. That the citizens of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defense; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime.

Texas
Section 23 - RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.

Utah
Sec. 6. [Right to bear arms.] The people have the right to bear arms for their security and defense, but the Legislature may regulate the exercise of this right by law.

Vermont
Article 16. [Right to bear arms; standing armies; military power subordinate to civil] That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State--and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power.

Virginia
Section 13. Militia; standing armies; military subordinate to civil power. That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

Washington
SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this SECTION shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

West Virginia
CON 3-22. Right to keep and bear arms. A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and state, and for lawful hunting and recreational use.

Wisconsin
Article I, §25 Right to keep and bear arms. Section 25. [As created Nov. 1998] The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose. [1995 J.R. 27, 1997 J.R. 21, vote November 1998]
Article I, §25 - ANNOT. The state constitutional right to bear arms is fundamental, but it is not absolute. This section does not affect the reasonable regulation of guns. The standard of review for challenges to statutes allegedly in violation of this section is whether the statute is a reasonable exercise of police power. State v. Cole, 2003 WI 112, ___ Wis. 2d ___, 665 N.W.2d 328.
Article I, §25 - ANNOT. The concealed weapons statute is a restriction on the manner in which firearms are possessed and used. It is constitutional under Art. I, s. 25. Only if the public benefit in the exercise of the police power is substantially outweighed by an individual's need to conceal a weapon in the exercise of the right to bear arms will an otherwise valid restriction on that right be unconstitutional. The right to keep and bear arms for security, as a general matter, must permit a person to possess, carry, and sometimes conceal arms to maintain the security of a private residence or privately operated business, and to safely move and store weapons within those premises. State v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, ___ Wis. 2d ___, 665 N.W.2d 785.
Article I, §25 - ANNOT. A challenge on constitutional grounds of a prosecution for carrying a concealed weapon requires affirmative answers to the following before the defendant may raise the constitutional defense: 1) under the circumstances, did the defendant's interest in concealing the weapon to facilitate exercise of his or her right to keep and bear arms substantially outweigh the state's interest in enforcing the concealed weapons statute? and 2) did the defendant conceal his or her weapon because concealment was the only reasonable means under the circumstances to exercise his or her right to bear arms? State v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, ___ Wis. 2d ___, 665 N.W.2d 785.

Wyoming
97-1-024. Right to bear arms. The right of citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the state shall not be denied.



To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (334847)4/23/2007 3:01:57 PM
From: tejek  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1573922
 
Eric, it's time the liberals finally admitted to what they stand for: the abolition of the 2nd Amendment.

Silly, silly man.......that's not what we stand for. We want to abolish neocons, not guns.



To: Tenchusatsu who wrote (334847)4/23/2007 3:33:09 PM
From: combjelly  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1573922
 
"Eric, it's time the liberals finally admitted to what they stand for: the abolition of the 2nd Amendment."

So I am guessing, then, that tejek is the only one so far who might qualify as a liberal here. Maybe. He hasn't called for the abolition of the 2nd amendment. But, of all the posters, he has come the closest.