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Politics : The Environmentalist Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: mistermj who wrote (13171)	5/30/2007 2:32:15 PM
From: longnshort	Respond to of 36921

DATA, they don't need no stinking data. they just have faith, with some carbon indulgences on the side, just incase.

To: mistermj who wrote (13171)	5/30/2007 4:32:55 PM
From: neolib	Respond to of 36921

Ah good, I'll look into that one. At face value this would appear to be that one of the foremost climate scientist is saying that climate modelling is worthless. In evilution/cretenism this would be called a quote mine: A statement from a leading expert used to refute the experts own work. I'll allow that you might just have found Hansen actually doing that. Saying all is work is worthless, but for some reason (paycheck?) he keeps doing it. I'll check it out and get back to you this evening.

To: mistermj who wrote (13171)	5/30/2007 5:56:41 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 36921

Sluts... Study reveals the promiscuous side of female cheetahs By Steve Connor, Science Editor Published: 30 May 2007 The fastest animal on four legs is also a fast mover when it comes to sexual promiscuity, according to a study of the mating habits of female cheetahs. Paternity tests of cheetahs living wild have shown that almost half of all the litters studied were made up of cubs from at least two different fathers. It is the first time in a big cat species that females have been shown to mate around the same time with more than one male, resulting in litters of mixed parentage. "Before we started the DNA analysis, we thought it was possible that female cheetahs were choosing to be cheaters, but we were amazed by the level of infidelity that we uncovered," said Dada Gottelli of the Zoological Society of London, who led the study. "We thought that multiple paternity may not be uncommon but we hadn't proved it. It's not been found in other large cats such as the lion, puma or leopard," Dr Gottelli said. The researchers found that in litters with more than one cub, some 43 per cent were fathered by more than one male. In some cases, three fathers were responsible for the cubs of just one litter. "Mating with more than one male poses a serious threat to females, increasing the risk of exposure to parasites and diseases. Females also have to travel over large distances to find new mates, making them more vulnerable to predation," Dr Gottelli said. "So infidelity is a heavy burden. However, the benefit to the females is that their offspring are more genetically diverse, which is important in an unpredictable environment such as the Serengeti." Over the past 150 years, the number of cheetahs in Africa has fallen dramatically from an estimated 100,000 in the early 19th century to fewer than 12,000 now. The cheetah is officially classified as "vulnerable" and its dramatic decline has resulted in a "genetic bottleneck", when DNA diversity has dwindled to a fraction of its original extent. Sarah Durant, the leader of the Serengeti Cheetah Project, said the study showed that male cheetahs, even those living beyond the confines of the national park, contributes more to the gene pool of the next generation than first expected. "This is good news for conservation, as the genetic diversity of future generations of cheetah will be preserved by their duplicitous behaviour," Dr Durant pointed out. The findings of the study could shed light on a little-understood aspect of cheetah behaviour, where females sometimes adopt cubs of another mother if the two litters are of the same age, the scientists said. It has been postulated that if adopted cubs are from related females, the "stepmother" may benefit from rearing the cubs of a close relative - so-called kin selection. However, it is also known that female cheetahs will raise the cubs of unrelated females. Understanding the nature of cheetah relationships, and the genetic mixing it produces, will further our understanding of the animal and help to save the species from extinction, the researchers said. The study is published in the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society B. environment.independent.co.uk

To: mistermj who wrote (13171)	5/31/2007 6:27:05 PM
From: neolib	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 36921

This is the paragraph from which your quote came: The forcings that drive long-term climate change are not known with an accuracy sufficient to define future climate change. Anthropogenic greenhouse gases (GHGs), which are well measured, cause a strong positive (warming) forcing. But other, poorly measured, anthropogenic forcings, especially changes of atmospheric aerosols, clouds, and land-use patterns, cause a negative forcing that tends to offset greenhouse warming. One consequence of this partial balance is that natural forcing due to solar irradiance changes may play a larger role in long-term climate change than inferred from comparison with GHG's alone. Current trends in GHG climate forcings are smaller than in popular business as usual' or 1% per year carbon dioxide growth scenarios. The summary implication is a paradigm change (whatever one of those is) for long-term climate projections: uncertainties in climate forcings have supplanted global climate sensitivity as the predominant issue. I have no problem at all with that paragraph. If you read up on the subject you will see that all of the items mentioned have on going research and all are included in the models. There are some good graphs I've seen which actually split out the GHC, solar, and cooling aerosols so you can see the individual contributions.