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To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (14245)	6/9/2007 10:03:24 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 14758

You seem to making one unsupportable claim after another, making challenges and allegation but refusing to hold up your part. You said nothing about my presentation was logical. It was entirely logical in part and parcel. I broke it down for you because you insisted you couldn't deal with anything but the vary concise, and clarified each part because you said you were to stupid to get it. It was you who claimed to like debating the topic of beliefs but you aren't. You complained/alleged believers wont give rational explanations for their beliefs. You are avoiding dealing with the substantive points being offered in answer to your challenge/allegation. Why is that? What are you afraid of. "My discussion with you, to my mind, was about evolution, ie the origin of the species, not the universe." Right. And your issue/complaint was that believers could not debate rationally. The question of origin of species, or origin of life is tied to the origin of the universe. So far you have refused to address the logic that makes that connection. Life as we know it exists inside the temporal universe. I see a connection in common for the phenomenon causing each to begin. That connection is not comprehendable in isolation. Moisture exists internal to a tree but it is not necessary or even true that the nature of a tree is required to produce the moisture. For example, a tree may have moisture acquired from rain. However a tree is limited, so we can, with confidence, declare that a raindrop outside the tree is not a tree at all. Likewise whatever produced the qualities of time and experience could be outside the limiting definitions of time and experience. If there is experience beyond what we have observed in temporal life, there may be unique qualities that we wont be able to fathom until in or of that realm. As with a rain drop, you would have to look outside the limitations of a tree to see how moisture is not dependent on its enmeshment within the tree. Since we cannot see outside our temporal experience until we have left its limitations, we are bound by patience and hope or nothing at all... aspects of faith. There is much evidence of phenomenon reaching beyond the limiting observations of science. Human beings know about awareness and consciousness, science is limited to observations of brain functionality. Rational people don't say there is no evidence of awareness, only that science is limited in it's observations of the phenomenon.