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Politics : FREE AMERICA -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (14378)	6/13/2007 8:16:13 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 14758

"Did you miss "Your, problem, I think is you are attempting to argue for one side of a point that cannot be settled. You can no more prove there is a God than I can there isn't." That was me. I didn't miss it. I don't disagree with it. There is a big difference between explaining why it is rational to believe vs proving there is a God. "You don’t have to wonder if God is subject to time or some alternative time. Time is a dimension of the limited nature of the universe. An Omniscient God is by definition not limited, and not subject to limitations. So, the Augustinian type of eternal present is definitional. Now that's interesting. Because the sort of theory that assumes spontaneous creation and explosion (the Big Bang) of a black hole that created the Universe makes precisely that same assumption: time and space have no meaning before that explosion. Which gets into all sorts of interesting weirdities when you try thinking about it. Well hold on to those weidities for a sec. I was simply arguing how free will is not a contradiction with the concept of Omnicience. Even if you don't believe in Omnicience or you use a fantasy omnicient being, you could follow the logic. The logic was contained only within those parameters. Outside of those parameters, I have never claimed that a belief in God has to contradict science. "So, then we get to the tough one, free will. It is not a question about whether or not we could have free will, we obviously have free will. The question, however is, how is that rational, given an Omniscient God who is not only All Knowing, Omnipresent, but also All Powerful? How is it that we can be free to choose disobedience of an All Powerful God? The answer to that question is that we can't. It is rational but flies in the face of some religious dogma. So Shep and I had no choice about our religious beliefs? We were condemned to Hell before we were even conceived? Has this God of yours ever heard of "Justice"? Does he care? I am confused, how exactly have you been condemned to hell, and more importantly, how did you get that from the passage I wrote on free will?