To: wbmw who wrote (235726 ) 7/5/2007 12:24:39 PM From: Petz Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 275872 re: That's because the X5365 today is nothing more than a specialty product, much like the Opteron SE was when it first launched Not for over three months? X5365 today? Still no such luck. What are they estimating now? September?mysearch.intel.com Searched for X5365 Your search - X5365 - did not match any documents. No pages were found containing "X5365" Petz, any argument that attempts to justify AMD being misleading by pointing to Intel (or Apple in this case) being misleading is fundamentally flawed. AMD has scores posted on their website for a 2.6GHz *projection* that isn't even on their roadmap, much less an actual product. Nothing fundamentally flawed at all in my logic. I showed that it is standard industry practice to list unsubmitted SPEC results as "projections," whether or not the hardware is available. Maybe you should take a look at SPEC.org and notice that there are still SPEC results for 1.13 GHz Pentium III's, which NEVER became products. Those results all have "hardware availability" dates, and on those dates the hardware was definitely NOT available. re: <estimates vs. projections> Can you find a link for this distinction? Does SPEC state that one word implies actual measurements and the other doesn't? In that case, AMD was being 100% honest with their projection, following SPEC guidelines. But you entirely miss the POINT of my post, which was I am merely stating that since Intel does not show [3 GHz quad core] as an orderable product, it is not an orderable product. These are FACTS and have nothing to do with FAITH. By ANYONE's definition, FAITH has absolutely nothing to do with it. Petz