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To: koan who wrote (44750)	7/13/2007 4:13:05 PM
From: E. Charters	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 78413

There your are. Our generous socialist society is so broke it cannot even help its old with a decent living sustenance. All the income geared housing in the world will not allow people to get by on 500 a month. You cannot even rent a room in Toronto for 500 a month. Cradle to the grave poverty and dumbed down doctorless socialized medicine. 5 minutes in a clinic a year is not medicine. It is warehoused pill pushing. And please see Sicko for the sleazy blue X private enterprise answer to that. It isn't our lack of money for welfare, it is the fact that there are too many who cannot work part time, or even get low end work for half decent wages. This is because our greedy guts governments are stealing all the money for boondoogles and too many high priced snivel slurvants. And because if pensioners earn a red cent and try to better themselves now in Canada they subtract the money from their pension that they make! Dollar for dollar. They should not allow governments or companies to touch a cent of pension funds. It's theft. They paid that bastard government to exist and they paid their pensions, let them keep them. If they can make more, so much the better for all concerned. It will help pay for other pensions. Legislated poverty should concern us. We have to encourage people on EI and pensions, welfare to work. Let them keep at least 60 cents on their welfare/pension dollar for every dollar they earn over and above their gov't. sustenance. Dollar for dollar makes no sense as min wage and part time never earns enuff to live on either. Otherwise they cheat or live at lowest possible ebb or refuse work. I have talked to a few people on the dole. They cannot work or they are penalized. It is far too much red tape. We could have totally free medicine for people who cannot afford it, and let them pay a portion who can. I don't see a problem there. EC<:-}

To: koan who wrote (44750)	7/13/2007 6:39:29 PM
From: marcos	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 78413

It was Bismarck who invented the state-managed old age pension, along with unemployment insurance, to help stifle revolutionary elements and centralise control of the newly unified Reich, Berlin's power over this cash flow was very much a tool of the militaristic right wing in that place and time, and in many others since In our village down south you don't get left to die hungry and unsheltered even if you don't have sons to support you ... and the government is not involved, either, outside of a pretty basic health care funded by Pemex money One of the effects of government taking large slices of people's money as taxes and then passing it out in state-controlled fashion, is it generates a feeling that 'I gave at the office', and indeed you have, through the nose, paid enough to support a bureaucracy as well ... this undercuts a natural human response to help one's neighbours For every leftie chanting 'share the wealth' there is a rightwingnut ranting against 'the culture of entitlement' ... and they can both be right, depending on individual cases ... i think the basic factor goes much deeper than 'left' and 'right' as the terms are commonly used, the bigger thing is that mankind developed in smaller communities, and is better suited to them, not ready at all for relationships that span even small cities, much less large ones, or whole nations ... the entire business of nationalism as we know it is quite new, one of the early stimulators of it was again Bismarck, it's had its pros and cons, but hasn't eliminated our tribal nature ... all above being a wordy way of saying, charity begins at home, and is less complex there, more efficient