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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (236514)	7/15/2007 1:14:18 PM
From: Wharf Rat	Respond to of 281500

"the only way they can be moral is to have committed suicide in the face of that hatred," Wouldn't help; they would hate us posthumously, and be even more pissed cuz they have lost a scapegoat.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (236514)	7/15/2007 2:51:32 PM
From: bentway	Respond to of 281500

Not all Jews agree with you Nadine. You should be ashamed of your spitefulness.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (236514)	7/16/2007 1:34:56 AM
From: Elroy	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

80% who ran off before the war or during the war - many under threats from their own side of being taken for renegades if they stayed. And that's supposed to be equivalent to 100% deported and murdered? YOU forget the catalyst that has caused the never ending strife in the Israel-Pal area. No Arab "ran off" until Jews decided land where non-Jews lived should be a Jewish nation. Before that, everyone lived together with equal rights. Maybe the equal rights were no rights, but the land was shared land owned by its owners, where Muslim, Jew, Christian and atheist were equal. And what would have happened to the Jews if they had lost? You conveniently airbrush that out of history! And the Jews who were thrown out of the Arab lands, who outnumbered the Arab refugees from Palestine, you forget them too. The important question is what would have happened to the Jews, in Palestine and elsewhere in Arabia, had they continued to live as equals with their non-Jewish neighbors? Unfortunately, we'll never know, since some ethnocentric racists decided that they had to get rid of all the non-Jewish people in the neighborhood. The Jews were thrown out of Arab lands AFTER capturing the land now called Israel and evicting the non-Jewish population. Prior to that act of racism Jews had lived with non-Jewish neighbors throughout Arabia for CENTURIES. The Brits and the Israelis tried to negotiate an exchange of populations, a return of refugees, a settlement. The Arab governments wouldn't have it. Take all the refugees back, they said, but we don't recognize you and we'll get you next time. And they Israelis had more Jewish refugees on their hands at that point than their had been Jews in the yishuv before 1948! They demanded a settlement first, not without agonizing about the plight of the refugees, but they just couldn't afford the risk. You're making this up, or who knows? You're telling me Israel in 1949 would allow refugees to return to their homes, but Jordan wouldn't let them? That sounds like complete BS! How did Jordan stop mom and dad Palestine in 1949 from walking 3 miles back to their home in what is now Israel? Regardless, where is the Jewish effort TODAY to allow a return of refugees? Your claiming that Israel supported it in 1949 indicates that is the CORRECT THING TO DO, so why did Israel fail to do it, and leave itself in its current situation? I am sick of ignoramuses talking as if this happened only in Palestine. 14 MILLION people became refugees in the partition of India and Pakistan, an exchange of populations was negotiated and not ONE of those people or their descendants is in a "refugee camp". Your point is what, that nobody wants to take responsibility for the refugees created during the founding of Israel? So what! The creation of a Jewish nation in a land where non-Jews have lived for centuries is immoral, end of story. It doesn't matter who does or does not take responsibility for the displaced population, the point is that their displacement, which is 100% based on their religion, is completely offensive to Americans since we believe in the equality of all people. Germans evict and kill the entire Jewish population in Gernamy in WW2, it's a holocaust. Israel evicts and kills 80% of the non-Jewish population in 1948, its a glorious war of liberation? You're sick of ignoramuses calling for an end to racial and religious discrimination? Believe me, over the long term, the alternative is likely worse for the 6 million Jews surrounding by the 300 million Arab non-Jews. The Arabs had a choice. They made their choice. The situation is as it is because they chose implacable hatred of Israel instead of diplomacy and were willing to sacrifice millions of their fellow Arabs to that hatred. That was their choice. You're the one who has said that Arab is a language, not a collection of like minded people. The Palestinian refugees NEVER had the choice to return to their homes, and THAT is the choice we are discussing. Displacing thousands of families, and then saying some dude in Jordan or Egypt didn't take care of them therefore they got what they deserved, doesn't hold ANY water. And every time fools like you claim that because Jews are so special, the only way they can be moral is to have committed suicide in the face of that hatred, you aid and encourage Arab hatred. Who had to commit suicide? Jews should just live equally with non-Jews, as they had for centuries. The decision BY THE JEWS to exclude their neighbors from the land where their neighbors have lived for centuries is the driver of the hatred. Muslims and Jews in the USA don't kill and hate each other, they live together as equals and practice their religion as equals. The paranoia you are expressing is indicative of a lack of understanding of the American system of life. If your views represent the Israeli outlook on humanity, Israel deserves ZERO US support.