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Politics : A US National Health Care System? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Road Walker who wrote (1769)	7/28/2007 5:55:50 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 42652

Scrolling down to that part of the article doesn't give more than minimal evidence for your claim. Costs you listed as a separate item("their systems works better and cheaper than ours"), and my statement treated them that way. And also you don't seem to care to talk about some of the important reasons why our system is more expensive. You just like to imply its because we don't have a single payer system. The difference in life expectancy have more to do with the other factors I've mentioned more than one than with different health care insurance systems. Infant mortality rate is also effected by those other factors, but also its measured differently in the US, and the way its measured in the US increases our reported level. Your in denial about the flimsiness of your evidence.

To: Road Walker who wrote (1769)	8/3/2007 3:50:02 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 42652

"...One often hears variations on Krugman's argument—that America lags behind other countries in crude health outcomes. But such outcomes reflect a mosaic of factors, such as diet, lifestyle, drug use, and cultural values. It pains me as a doctor to say this, but health care is just one factor in health. Americans live 75.3 years on average, fewer than Canadians (77.3) or the French (76.6) or the citizens of any Western European nation save Portugal. Health care influences life expectancy, of course. But a life can end because of a murder, a fall, or a car accident. Such factors aren't academic—homicide rates in the United States are much higher than in other countries (eight times higher than in France, for instance). In The Business of Health, Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don't die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country. And if we measure a health-care system by how well it serves its sick citizens, American medicine excels. Five-year cancer survival rates bear this out. For leukemia, the American survival rate is almost 50 percent; the European rate is just 35 percent. Esophageal carcinoma: 12 percent in the United States, 6 percent in Europe. The survival rate for prostate cancer is 81.2 percent here, yet 61.7 percent in France and down to 44.3 percent in England—a striking variation..." city-journal.org

To: Road Walker who wrote (1769)	8/24/2007 5:25:24 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 42652

"With regard to patterns of use, the most well-to-do and educated French people rely more on office-based private practice, particularly the services of specialists and dentists. The more disadvantaged groups, including laborers, make greater use of GPs and public hospitals. From 1960 to 1980 these disparities diminished, but since 1980 they have been exacerbated.51 These disparities are matched by equally flagrant disparities in life expectancy. For example, during 1980-1989 the life expectancy of an engineer at age thirty-five (forty-five years) was higher by nine years (25 percent) than that of a manual worker (35.8 years).52 Of course, differences in life expectancy reflect such factors as education, housing, and working ......... conditions and cannot be attributed solely to differential access to medical care. But it is important to note that the medical system has been unable to compensate for these and other inequalities." FREE???? "22. The copayment in France is known as a ticket modérateur. Under the General National Health Insurance Scheme, the copayment is 25 percent for physician services, 35 percent for private nursing services and laboratory tests, and typically 30 percent for prescription drugs. Essential drugs are exempt from copayments, but the copayment is set at 60 percent for so-called comfort drugs. Patients in public and private hospitals typically are required to pay 20 percent of the per diem rates plus a daily fee (roughly $10) to cover meals. Patients in cliniques also pay copayments for all physician services, procedures, and laboratory tests." content.healthaffairs.org You are rather deeply in denial, John. The facts of the situation have been set out rather well in the posts and in the header. France: Net migration rate: Definition Field Listing 1.52 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.) USA: Net migration rate: Definition Field Listing 3.05 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2007 est.) cia.gov And there must have been a significant increase in immigration into France; it used to be about 10% of the US rate. Do you suppose a tidal wave of of poor and poorly educated immigrants (including hygeine practices( might affext your healt statistics and costs?