Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : THE WHITE HOUSE -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: pompsander who wrote (7345)	8/14/2007 6:48:33 PM
From: Jim S	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 25737

"... so some clergy and iman tend to be a bit cranky if followers move on to a different faith..." Yeah, pity the poor Catholic who decides to become a Baptist. <G>

To: pompsander who wrote (7345)	8/14/2007 7:04:47 PM
From: goldworldnet	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 25737

Barack Hussein Obama's "Apostasy" from Islam One of the most entertaining opportunities that will emerge in 2007 will be using Barack Obama to fight Islamofascism. He is the product of a black Moslem from Kenya, Barrack Hussein Obama, and a white atheist from Kansas, Shirley Ann Dunham, who met at the University of Hawaii in Honolulu. That is why his middle name is the same as Saddam’s: Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. His first name is taken from the Islamic term in Arabic for “blessed,” baraka, used in the Koran. His father deserted the family when Barack Jr. was two and returned to Kenya. His mother then married another Moslem studying at UH, Lolo Soetoro from Indonesia. He moved with his mother and stepfather to Jakarta when he was six, where he attended a Moslem medressa (religious school). That makes him a Moslem. There is no mention of this in the chapter of his book, The Audacity of Hope, where he discusses his religion, My Spiritual Journey (reprinted in Time Magazine). Obama claims he is a Christian, that he and his wife Michelle are members of the United Church of Christ. The opportunity in this is not accusing him of being a “closet Moslem.” It requires taking him at his word that he has become a Christian — for that means he is an apostate. There is no dispute among either ancient or modern Moslem scholars that under Islamic law, a murtadd, “one who turns his back on Islam,” an apostate, must be put to death. Irtidad, apostasy, is committing treason against God, and traitors deserve to be killed. Should Obama deny he ever was a Moslem, it will compound the problem in the eyes of Moslems. He was born of a Moslem father, raised by a Moslem stepfather, and received his first education at a Moslem school. That he subsequently went to a Catholic school in Jakarta before living with his mother’s parents back in Honolulu makes no difference. In the eyes of Moslems, he originally was a Moslem. How can he not be in those eyes, with a Koranic first name and his middle name that of the grandson of Mohammed? For him to become a Christian means he is, for them, a murtadd, an apostate. Which provides the perfect opportunity for an enterprising journalist to ask him at a press conference if he is: 1. Afraid of Moslem assassination attempts as punishment for being in Islamic eyes an apostate? 2. Willing to publicly call upon all Moslems around the world to renounce such punishment and declare instead that Moslems are fully free to convert to another religion? The odds are high that he will answer no to the first and yes to the second. As an oily politician, he will try to squirm out of a clear definitive yes with no wiggle room. But it should not be difficult for a smart journalist to get him to agree without reservation that Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states... Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion. This right includes freedom to change his religion or belief. ...applies to Muslims Once Obama condemns the Moslem tradition of death for apostasy, then he can be asked: The Koran famously quotes Allah as saying in chapter (sura) 2, verse 256 that there should be ‘no compulsion in religion.' Yet numerous sayings of Mohammed known as hadith which form the basis of Islamic Sharia law quote Mohammed as saying ‘If a Moslem discards his religion, kill him.' So are you telling Moslems that Allah was right but Mohammed was misquoted, and their Sharia law tradition on apostasy is wrong? You can see how much fun there is to be had with this. Again, the key is taking Obama at his word that he is a Christian and not secretly a Moslem. No accusations necessary. The point is that Moslems view him as first a Moslem, not that he does. If done right with honest, straightforward, and persistent questioning Obama can serve as a quite useful anti-islamofascist tool. Moslems will be infuriated with him for embarrassing them, Americans will tell themselves never to vote for someone with Hussein in their name to be their president — and it just might get a number of influential Moslems to abandon an important part of Islamic law. This is going to happen to Obama this year. And not only that. For he’ll then be asked if he will support the efforts of Christian missionaries in Islamic countries to peacefully convert Moslems to Christianity. Yep, might as well put this guy to good use. atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com * * *

To: pompsander who wrote (7345)	8/14/2007 7:38:32 PM
From: GROUND ZERO™	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 25737

I guess my point is being lost....Regardless of what the muslim faith may say, does a person not have any rights to decide their own religious beliefs? The person who converted in the article from Islam to Christianity...is he muslim or Christian? He thinks he is Christian. Isn't that what matters - the person's personal journey? Yes, your point is being lost, but this is your own doing, not mine... the very wording of your question demonstrates that you really do not understand the moslum perspective... you refer to the moslum faith as if it were just another religion like christianity, judaism, baptism, and so on... but the moslum religion is not a set of internal personal beliefs about a deity and our relationship with this deity in the same way Western religions are perceived... islam is a way of life as well as a political perspective... so, you ask, can one born into the moslum faith convert to another religion? No, they cannot... the link I provide you earlier states the following: "Under a widespread interpretation of Islamic law, converting from Islam is apostasy and punishable by death _ though killings are rare and the state has never ordered or carried out an execution on those grounds. Most Muslims who convert usually practice their new religion quietly or leave the country. Egypt is overwhelmingly Muslim. Only 10 percent of the 76 million population is Christian and converts are typically ostracized by their families. If the conversion becomes known, they may receive death threats from militants or harassment by police, who use laws against “insulting religion” or “disturbing public order” to target them. This case is disturbingly similar to that of Adbel Rahman, an Afghan man who was sentenced to death for converting to Christianity in 2006, and who was later forced to leave the country because of it. Things may not get that bad for Hegazy, but the mere fact that he’s been forced into hiding because of his religious beliefs is, I think, an indication of the nature of the enemy we’re dealing with." Do not confuse our Western religions with a moslum perspective, it is not a Western type religion as you think, and this is the problem most all of us Westerners have, we really have no clue how very different it is... obama would not disappoint his moslum father, whom he loves dearly and who resides in Kenya... when obama visited his father, he went to the mosque with his father and embraced the moslum way... there is absolutely no doubt that should things come to critical mass, that obama would choose his birth religion over christianity and islam over America... GZ™